Saddle up for Syria? Or Op Deny Christmas '13

[Lawman]

If that picture is accurate...when did Syria get Su-27s?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Air_Force Doesn't mention any Flankers in their inventory.

I'm thinking somebody found some stock photo of one and just ran with it. I don't remember seeing anything on Syria getting Flankers.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I'm thinking somebody found some stock photo of one and just ran with it. I don't remember seeing anything on Syria getting Flankers.

Exactly. Yeah the picture in the BBC article is clearly a Flanker, but as pointed out, Syria never has operated Flankers before. They do have Fulcrums and Fencers, but that's not in the pic (obviously).

This is the image I'd seen screen captured from video...

Seems anybody posts whatever photos to their news articles, if you google "Turkey shoots down Syrian" you see pics of MiG-21s, Su-27s, MiG-29s, L-39s, Su-22s, Mi-8s...go figure.

Seems the Syrian Fulcrum fleet has gotten more involved...videos have lots of 'Allahu Akhbar' going on as normal, but still impressive imagery. First link is a strafing run pointed right at the camera...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b36_1395944414

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=15e_1396010090

[skosh]

http://blogs.wsj.com/peggynoonan/2013/09/10/making-sense-of-syria/

Ouch is about all that can be said.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/obama-lays-out-plan-to-fight-islamic-militants-1410388576

Better late than never! What a difference a year makes. And now Assad is what, our ally? Maybe we'll let him dispose of any remaining chemical weapons by dumping them on ISIS. Two birds...

[pawnman]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/obama-lays-out-plan-to-fight-islamic-militants-1410388576

Better late than never! What a difference a year makes. And now Assad is what, our ally? Maybe we'll let him dispose of any remaining chemical weapons by dumping them on ISIS. Two birds...

Better late than never? I submit that we are getting far too involved too soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor/2014/09/09/the-virtue-of-subtlety-a-u-s-strategy-against-the-islamic-state/

[summe32c]

Better late than never? I submit that we are getting far too involved too soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor/2014/09/09/the-virtue-of-subtlety-a-u-s-strategy-against-the-islamic-state/

2.

[Champ Kind]

I'm confused. Do we like Assad or not?

[waveshaper]

I'm confused. Do we like Assad or not?

Don't worry we will eventually get around to Assad (or will we) but first we have to destroy ISIS.

After destroying ISIS, we will then have to destroy the Al Qaeda affiliated Syrian rebel groups in the following order;

First on the chopping block after ISIS will be Al Nusra, followed by Ahrar Al-Sham, followed by The Islamic Front, etc,

etc. Eventually we will have to destroy whatever kind of Islamic monster the US supported/funded/trained/armed FSA

morphs into. This type CF is our destiny so relax (said the night man/Assad) an enjoy the perpetual target rich

environment.

[skosh]

Better late than never? I submit that we are getting far too involved too soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stratfor/2014/09/09/the-virtue-of-subtlety-a-u-s-strategy-against-the-islamic-state/

Your sarcasm detector appears inop... Friedman is right on the money. While the fighter pilot in me (sts) is itching to see some action, I'm skeptical of the long-term geopolitical strategy at work. This threat/conflict is so much bigger than a few JDAMs can solve. I wish we had really thought about the unforeseen consequences before going kinetic. What are we actually trying to accomplish in the long-run? What's the desired end-state? Obama says he wants to destroy ISIS, that's great I think everyone agrees they deserve that fate. But has he really thought about how difficult that will be and what comes next in the region?

[waveshaper]

Well it's good to see our NATO/anti ISIS coalition partner "Turkey" is in lockstep with our Destroy ISIS OPLAN.

http://www.iraqinews.com/arab-world-news/urgent-turkish-hospitals-treat-isis-leaders-government-media-downplays-syrian-opposition/

Excerpt from todays article (This can't possibly be true?); On Thursday, Turkish media revealed that hospitals have

received and paid to treat a growing number of ill and injured fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.

The free media talked about the presence of senior ISIS leaders and fighters of the organization of the Islamic State,

led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, seeking medical treatment in Turkey while official government media outlets downplayed the

ongoing issue as news of hosting “Victims of the Syrian opposition.”

The Turkish newspaper Taraf said today that “eight of the most important leaders in the organization of the state, who

were wounded during the American bombing this month, were transferred to the city of Urfa in southern Turkey and treated in a private hospital. The Turkish government has secured the transfer and paid the costs of their treatment fully.

[Fuzz]

Well it's good to see our NATO/anti ISIS coalition partner "Turkey" is in lockstep with our Destroy ISIS OPLAN.http://www.iraqinews.com/arab-world-news/urgent-turkish-hospitals-treat-isis-leaders-government-media-downplays-syrian-opposition/Excerpt from todays article (This can't possibly be true?); On Thursday, Turkish media revealed that hospitals havereceived and paid to treat a growing number of ill and injured fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.The free media talked about the presence of senior ISIS leaders and fighters of the organization of the Islamic State,led by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, seeking medical treatment in Turkey while official government media outlets downplayed theongoing issue as news of hosting “Victims of the Syrian opposition.”The Turkish newspaper Taraf said today that “eight of the most important leaders in the organization of the state, whowere wounded during the American bombing this month, were transferred to the city of Urfa in southern Turkey and treated in a private hospital. The Turkish government has secured the transfer and paid the costs of their treatment fully.

In case you missed it when ISIS took Mosul a couple months ago, they also overran the Turkish Embassy there and are holding 45 embassy personnel hostage. The last thing Turkey probably wants is 45 videos of beheadings of their personnel flooding the net. Its not good for them, and it could sour the Turkish view of our presence in Incirlik, making a no-win situation for everyone but the terrorists.

http://www.rferl.org/content/us-and-un-express-concern-over-iraq/25417594.html

[Prosuper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWgF3yBYW7U

Edited September 11, 2014 by Prosuper

[waveshaper]

In case you missed it when ISIS took Mosul a couple months ago, they also overran the Turkish Embassy there and are holding 45 embassy personnel hostage. The last thing Turkey probably wants is 45 videos of beheadings of their personnel flooding the net. Its not good for them, and it could sour the Turkish view of our presence in Incirlik, making a no-win situation for everyone but the terrorists.

http://www.rferl.org/content/us-and-un-express-concern-over-iraq/25417594.html

I Didn't miss it and have been following this particular situation closely.

Caution; Don't expect much tangible overt help from Turkey and the Turkish Intelligence Service (MIT) is about as

trustworthy as the Pakistani ISI.

[Fuzz]

I Didn't miss it and have been following this particular situation closely.

Caution; Don't expect much tangible overt help from Turkey and the Turkish Intelligence Service (MIT) is about as

trustworthy as the Pakistani ISI.

Most people I've talked to missed the embassy overrun, which wasn't hard considering chaos of what was going on at the time. I wasn't expecting much help from the Turkish anyways, if you've ever tried to get of Incirlik when you stop through there you'll understand. However, them letting us use Incirlik for operations would be the biggest benefit.

[Lawman]

Most people I've talked to missed the embassy overrun, which wasn't hard considering chaos of what was going on at the time. I wasn't expecting much help from the Turkish anyways, if you've ever tried to get of Incirlik when you stop through there you'll understand. However, them letting us use Incirlik for operations would be the biggest benefit.

So much for that advantage.... http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2014/09/11/Turkey-refuses-U-S-permission-for-combat-missions-against-ISIS-.html

Echos of 2003 anyone?

[HerkFE]

So much for that advantage.... http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2014/09/11/Turkey-refuses-U-S-permission-for-combat-missions-against-ISIS-.html

Echos of 2003 anyone?

May just be their "Official" position....

[Lawman]

May just be their "Official" position....

I dont doubt there are elements in their government that view this threat in Syria/Iraq to be a real problem that effects them.

But at the same time I dont think its politically acceptable for them with the general population or at least a good portion of that population who would be more than just "against" our presence conducting strikes down into Iraq and Syria. Airlift or support aid might be one of those semantic sells we can pull off like "these dont drop bombs therefor they arent combat ops," or something of that nature. Still, not a great start out of the gate when the most immediate neighbor tells us publicly to F off.... again.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I wonder how not-wild the Turks are of us potentially arming the Kurds in Iraq. Figure equipment would end up pointed at them with the PKK...

[Clark Griswold]

Not surprising about Turkey, Erodgan is an Islamist in sheep's clothing with a pack of thugs to enforce Sharia soon enough... the worry about the PKK getting more and better arms is in some sense valid but really they want a victory of sorts for IS to thwart the Shia / Alawites of Syria, Iraq and Iran.

Islamist Turkish Politician: ‘Christianity Is No Longer a Religion’

Erdogan approves law tightening Turkey's Internet controls

A 60 minutes story I saw a while ago about the treatment of the Christian church in Turkey

Jordan is who and where we should court for air bases as King Abdullah is not on their list of BFFs...

ISIS Threatens to Invade Jordan, 'Slaughter' King Abdullah

But a new Yankee Station in the Eastern Med might be all we get to attack ISIS for now.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Clark Griswold

[MD]

This whole thing is a self-cleaning microwave oven. Let it do what it's going to do. At worst, we can mop up whatever is left over.

Edited September 13, 2014 by MD

[waveshaper]

When airstrikes aren't good enough/getting the job done-who do you call? Answer; General Allen and General Petraeus.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140911/NEWS08/309110064/Former-Afghanistan-commander-John-Allen-coordinate-Iraq-Syria-effort

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140912/NEWS08/309120039/Petraeus-Obama-Iraq-plan-good-starting-point

ISIS better stand-by for the coming 24/7, Phase 2 (Allen/Patraeus) generated, barrage/onslaught of flirtatious emails

and sexting. They're toast now.

[HerkFE]

I dont doubt there are elements in their government that view this threat in Syria/Iraq to be a real problem that effects them.

But at the same time I dont think its politically acceptable for them with the general population or at least a good portion of that population who would be more than just "against" our presence conducting strikes down into Iraq and Syria. Airlift or support aid might be one of those semantic sells we can pull off like "these dont drop bombs therefor they arent combat ops," or something of that nature. Still, not a great start out of the gate when the most immediate neighbor tells us publicly to F off.... again.

I was kind of making reference to some past practices of some other countries in that area who came out "loud and proud" that they wouldn't support us....and I'll just leave it there. That entire part of the planet is complicated pot of $h!+ soup.

Edit: changed a word to make it sound more better

Edited September 14, 2014 by HerkFE

[HeloDude]

And it starts...ugh.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_UNITED_STATES_ISLAMIC_STATE_SYRIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Clark Griswold]

[Day Man]

fly safe, team

[Azimuth]

Enact stop loss...