What's wrong with the Air Force?

[discus]

Very similar story to those above. Flying along with my fattie, went to the back to take a leak, and chief of OGV points at my lucky John Deere cap and says "The wing commander told me he didn't want people wearing those any more. I don't mind, but he does". My response was "oh really? I have never heard him say that and there has been no policy letter". I continued to wear my hat the rest of the flight... But others on the crew took off hats, patches etc because of fear from OGV guy.

I dunno, call me crazy, but I was always taught that if the boss tells you to do something, it becomes your policy too... And you enforce it that way. "You can't wear your hat on this jet because I am the A code on this flight, and a Major. The wing commander does not Ike hats, and I don't either" or something to that effect. Am I crazy here? It seems more and more common to do it the former way. Weak.

[nsplayr]

This was inside the airplane? Agreed that if he was the A code he should have told you to take it off because that was his policy or he should have said nothing because it's asinine to enforce uniform policy not related to safety when you're inside your own damn airplane. Agreed that the 1/2 way solution he went with comes off as a little spineless.

Edited October 14, 2013 by nsplayr

[Skitzo]

Sounds similar to bros educating others to zip every zipper possible or you will get an earful. Is there a chance that the OGV guy was just trying to look out for the crew dogs?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Skitzo

[ShavedDogsAss]

...Grabbed an apple as I stepped.

The most ridiculous part of this story is that Chop was eating something other than raw beef heart.

[Duck]

I think the real kicker is that these Commander policies are getting so stupid that even some of the shoe clerks are saying "really? You want me to enforce that?" And that is when we went full retard.

[Duck]

Heard a funny WTF story from a bro flying Tankers on a Pacific AE (TFI unit, mixed AD and ANG crew). They got met in Hawaii by a HHQ Stan/Eval Boom Operator who had decided to do a no notice spot check for the two A1C boomers (fresh out of Altus) on the return leg of the mission. At base ops he says to the A code, "I see you have 3 pilots on this mission. That's good because you can still get home if I hook one of you guys." Dude decides after landing in Travis to Q-3 both booms for not having a fully charged iPads but after calling back to his Stan/Eval finds out he couldn't legally give either boom a checkride without giving the ANG OG/CC two weeks notice.

Didn't know his own damn reg but flew commercial airlines to Honolulu for a free vacation on the Governments dime and gives an illegal checkride. Winning. Dude was apparently a huge flapping douche-bag about everything.

I encouraged my buddy to do one of those Fraud Waste and Abuse things but his leadership back home was already worried about highlighting themselves.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Duck

[TreeA10]

A boomer can Q3 a pilot?

[RTB]

A boomer can Q3 a pilot?

My thoughts exactly. Tell me this isn't true...

[HU&W]

Yes. Higher-level stan eval can Q3 any crew member for safety of flight and a few select other things. Just like the A-code can refuse them passage for making threatening remarks.

[ThreeHoler]

Yes, supposedly only for "safety of flight" reasons. Several years ago in the KC-10, there was a crew that had an evaluator FE on board giving a check to the FE...the pilots forgot to shut off one of the engines and the FE didn't back them up. The evaluator Q-3'd at least one of the pilots and the FE. It has been a few years, so I may have some of the details wrong...but it does happen.

[Chuck17]

Heard a funny WTF story from a bro flying Tankers on a Pacific AE (TFI unit, mixed AD and ANG crew). They got met in Hawaii by a HHQ Stan/Eval Boom Operator who had decided to do a no notice spot check for the two A1C boomers (fresh out of Altus) on the return leg of the mission. At base ops he says to the A code, "I see you have 3 pilots on this mission. That's good because you can still get home if I hook one of you guys." Dude decides after landing in Travis to Q-3 both booms for not having a fully charged iPads but after calling back to his Stan/Eval finds out he couldn't legally give either boom a checkride without giving the ANG OG/CC two weeks notice.

Didn't know his own damn reg but flew commercial airlines to Honolulu for a free vacation on the Governments dime and gives an illegal checkride. Winning. Dude was apparently a huge flapping douche-bag about everything.

I encouraged my buddy to do one of those Fraud Waste and Abuse things but his leadership back home was already worried about highlighting themselves.

Sounds like a good war story... I'd like to know which MAJCOM we are talking.... it's good to have friends and it's easy to make inquiries. I'm just saying...

MAJCOM - level evaluators know when and how to do cross-command checkrides. It is not cosmic, we've been doing it a while now and it is clearly spelled out in the regs, as is it clearly briefed to them upon their appointment. That being said, there are some colossal dopes made into evaluators, so it is not impossible that this guys was clueless.

Q-3 for not having fully charged iPads? GMAFB. There's more to the story...

I once saw a boom-turned pilot try to Q-3 a loadmaster for not reading verbatim from the pre-flight checklist with a MAJCOM Vice CC on board. The Q-3 got a lot of attention at the wing because it was being driven by an idiot with the bosses ear and an axe to grind... Right up until the SQ/CC shredded it and told everyone to get back to work. I'm sure today they'd crucify that guy on the highest local hilltop. Commanders have a lot more power over that kinda stuff than you'd think, should they decide to use it.

Dudes, want to fix the AF? Fix your corner of it. In the aggregate, the whole will get a lot better. Your choice. You have a lot more power than you think, you just have to be smart about using it.

Chuck

[Azimuth]

Heard a funny WTF story from a bro flying Tankers on a Pacific AE (TFI unit, mixed AD and ANG crew). They got met in Hawaii by a HHQ Stan/Eval Boom Operator who had decided to do a no notice spot check for the two A1C boomers (fresh out of Altus) on the return leg of the mission. At base ops he says to the A code, "I see you have 3 pilots on this mission. That's good because you can still get home if I hook one of you guys." Dude decides after landing in Travis to Q-3 both booms for not having a fully charged iPads but after calling back to his Stan/Eval finds out he couldn't legally give either boom a checkride without giving the ANG OG/CC two weeks notice.

Didn't know his own damn reg but flew commercial airlines to Honolulu for a free vacation on the Governments dime and gives an illegal checkride. Winning. Dude was apparently a huge flapping douche-bag about everything.

I encouraged my buddy to do one of those Fraud Waste and Abuse things but his leadership back home was already worried about highlighting themselves.

I might believe that story if there was a "HHQ Eval Boom" assigned to PACAF. However there isn't one. And I do know the OG Superintendent at Hickam, who's a Boom. However he's the best Chief I've ever met (worked for him at Altus), and he wouldn't do something like since he's been flying longer than most people on this message forum.

This was inside the airplane? Agreed that if he was the A code he should have told you to take it off because that was his policy or he should have said nothing because it's asinine to enforce uniform policy not related to safety when you're inside your own damn airplane. Agreed that the 1/2 way solution he went with comes off as a little spineless.

How about he's the Aircraft Commander and he's telling you to do something, so do it. Inside "your damn airplane"...when was the last time you were the A-Code and owned the jet? I'm waiting for your riveting response. This board cracks me up. Had that been an Enlisted crew member that didn't follow the hat request 2/3rds of the responses here would be how the OGV guy is an Officer and the Enlisted guy needs to learn to follow orders, blah blah blah.

My thoughts exactly. Tell me this isn't true...

I know, it's weird. It's like the CAF and MAF do things differently.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Azimuth

[RTB]

They got met in Hawaii by a HHQ Stan/Eval Boom Operator .... At base ops he says to the A code, "I see you have 3 pilots on this mission. That's good because you can still get home if I hook one of you guys."

First question: What's an A code? Is that the AC?

Second, more important question: How in the wide wide world of sports does a narsacistic douchebag like that become and stay a flight examiner!?

Just like the A-code can refuse them passage for making threatening remarks.

Should have been the easy call after the base ops "hook" comment...oops.

Yes. Higher-level stan eval can Q3 any crew member for safety of flight and a few select other things.

Wow. Had no idea a guy with zero pilot experience could ever Q-3 a pilot. Seems wrong but not my community.

[Duck]

I might believe that story if there was a "HHQ Eval Boom" assigned to PACAF. However there isn't one. And I do know the OG Superintendent at Hickam, who's a Boom. However he's the best Chief I've ever met (worked for him at Altus), and he wouldn't do something like since he's been flying longer than most people on this ...

Who said anything about PACAF or him being a Chief? He was an AMC SE boom, E-7 I believe.

First question: What's an A code? Is that the AC?

Second, more important question: How in the wide wide world of sports does a narsacistic douchebag like that become and stay a flight examiner!?

Should have been the easy call after the base ops "hook" comment...oops.

Wow. Had no idea a guy with zero pilot experience could ever Q-3 a pilot. Seems wrong but not my community.

Seems messed up to me too. The A code was a brand new AC, with 2 other brand new ACs. Probably the reason they were targeted.

[nsplayr]

How about he's the Aircraft Commander and he's telling you to do something, so do it. Inside "your damn airplane"...when was the last time you were the A-Code and owned the jet? I'm waiting for your riveting response.

A) Like I said, if Stan/Eval Dude was the A code he should have told Hat Guy, "Take off the hat" if he didn't think it was within regs. Not some kind of dickless "Well, the OG wouldn't like it blah blah blah." Here I'm arguing not for a sane uniform policy, but for leadership where the buck stops with you.

B) Now I'll argue for a sane uniform policy...if you're fully inside an aircraft where you are a crew member, you can wear whatever the F you want so long as it doesn't interfere with safety or good order and discipline. That's what I'm used to in my community at least.

C) You're own damn airplane has nothing to do with "owning it." It has to do with my view that reasonable accommodations for ball caps, morale shirts, patches, etc. can be made when out of the public eye in an airplane on which you are a crew member. See above.

Edited October 14, 2013 by nsplayr

[WABoom]

Heard a funny WTF story from a bro flying Tankers on a Pacific AE (TFI unit, mixed AD and ANG crew). They got met in Hawaii by a HHQ Stan/Eval Boom Operator who had decided to do a no notice spot check for the two A1C boomers (fresh out of Altus) on the return leg of the mission. At base ops he says to the A code, "I see you have 3 pilots on this mission. That's good because you can still get home if I hook one of you guys." Dude decides after landing in Travis to Q-3 both booms for not having a fully charged iPads but after calling back to his Stan/Eval finds out he couldn't legally give either boom a checkride without giving the ANG OG/CC two weeks notice.

Didn't know his own damn reg but flew commercial airlines to Honolulu for a free vacation on the Governments dime and gives an illegal checkride. Winning. Dude was apparently a huge flapping douche-bag about everything.

I encouraged my buddy to do one of those Fraud Waste and Abuse things but his leadership back home was already worried about highlighting themselves.

I know who you are talking about and he's one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Very matter of fact when it comes to flying and i'm sure the real fish was much smaller than the one being talked about. Had to stick up for a good dude.

[discus]

Just to clarify, I was never told to take off the hat. It was implied, but never stated. Weak leadership is the point... Grow some balls and pass the bad news.

[Duck]

I know who you are talking about and he's one of the nicest people you will ever meet. Very matter of fact when it comes to flying and i'm sure the real fish was much smaller than the one being talked about. Had to stick up for a good dude.

You can be a nice guy and still be a douche, just sayin'. Next time maybe he should know his own regs before he tries to give a checkride and hook someone for not knowing/following the regs.

Got clarification from the guy with the A code. One boom was to be Q-3d for not reading the passenger brief verbatim from the script and the other one was getting Q-3d for his iPad. Shityounot.

He also made the comment in base ops that he had hooked a pilot the week before for forgetting to take off his wedding band. He sounds like a great guy, real big picture.

[Berry]

I'd be willing to wager that the boom wouldn't be evaluating the pilot, but instead recommending a CC-directed Q-3 to the Boss based on one of the three critical areas.

[hindsight2020]

You can be a nice guy and still be a douche, just sayin'. Next time maybe he should know his own regs before he tries to give a checkride and hook someone for not knowing/following the regs.

Got clarification from the guy with the A code. One boom was to be Q-3d for not reading the passenger brief verbatim from the script and the other one was getting Q-3d for his iPad. Shityounot.

He also made the comment in base ops that he had hooked a pilot the week before for forgetting to take off his wedding band. He sounds like a great guy, real big picture.

Yep, bullshit Q-3s. Another reason this job's in the toilet. Do the fighter guys mutilate their their young's FEF like this too, or is this a heavy thing?

[Champ Kind]

I'd be willing to wager that the boom wouldn't be evaluating the pilot, but instead recommending a CC-directed Q-3 to the Boss based on one of the three critical areas.

This.

[FlyinGrunt]

Indeed. I have yet to be shown in 11-202v2, 11-2MDSv2 etc where it says that any flight examiner can Q-3 any crewmember at any time. Now he can certainly report his observations and recommendations to the Sq/CC for a CC directed Q-3, authority for which is quite clear. But this "I can hook a pilot if I want" crap?

I would just tell him to get the F*&#K off my airplane, take him off the orders and report what I'd done to my Sq/CC after I'd landed at my next RON. Based on an incident we had (a new AC and an FE misunderstanding the vol 2, not mention the AC's authority and responsibility for all things mission accomplishment) I'd bet my FEF that he'd agree.

[Azimuth]

Sounds like a good war story... I'd like to know which MAJCOM we are talking.... it's good to have friends and it's easy to make inquiries. I'm just saying...

MAJCOM - level evaluators know when and how to do cross-command checkrides. It is not cosmic, we've been doing it a while now and it is clearly spelled out in the regs, as is it clearly briefed to them upon their appointment. That being said, there are some colossal dopes made into evaluators, so it is not impossible that this guys was clueless.

Q-3 for not having fully charged iPads? GMAFB. There's more to the story...

I once saw a boom-turned pilot try to Q-3 a loadmaster for not reading verbatim from the pre-flight checklist with a MAJCOM Vice CC on board. The Q-3 got a lot of attention at the wing because it was being driven by an idiot with the bosses ear and an axe to grind... Right up until the SQ/CC shredded it and told everyone to get back to work. I'm sure today they'd crucify that guy on the highest local hilltop. Commanders have a lot more power over that kinda stuff than you'd think, should they decide to use it.

Dudes, want to fix the AF? Fix your corner of it. In the aggregate, the whole will get a lot better. Your choice. You have a lot more power than you think, you just have to be smart about using it.

Chuck

I know a Boom with a CC directed Q-3 in his FEF because a new C-17 FTU IP allowed a student to crush an ice shield. Safety report comes back and places blame on the C-17 IP, doesn't matter the Boom still has his FEF tarnished by someone else.

I worked with the guy in question at the -135 FTU a few years ago and now he's in A3V. He's been doing this evaluator gig a long time. Do you think he'd be sitting in A3V for the past three years if he wasn't doing a good job? You want to file a "complaint" over some "bullshit Q-3?" Good luck, do non-evaluators realize that when hooking someone you do have to make sure that it's within the criteria of the 11-2MDS Vol 2? Just like when crew members sign FCIF's stating they'll keep this pubs iPad charged to a certain percentage, take their rings, rags, scarves off before performing aircrew duties, etc.

[go_cubbies22]

Good luck, do non-evaluators realize that when hooking someone you do have to make sure that it's within the criteria of the 11-2MDS Vol 2? Just like when crew members sign FCIF's stating they'll keep this pubs iPad charged to a certain percentage, take their rings, rags, scarves off before performing aircrew duties, etc.

Douche

[tac airlifter]

You want to file a "complaint" over some "bullshit Q-3?" Good luck, do non-evaluators realize that when hooking someone you do have to make sure that it's within the criteria of the 11-2MDS Vol 2? Just like when crew members sign FCIF's stating they'll keep this pubs iPad charged to a certain percentage, take their rings, rags, scarves off before performing aircrew duties, etc.

Wow, you are what's wrong with the Air Force.