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What's wrong with the Air Force?

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17 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:


Nah. An Air Force Colonel with an honorable service characterization could clearly manage an Apple store.

I think a better example would be a USAF O-6 would be an excellent manager of a Radio Shack...

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Was just chatting with a coworker today about Air Force issues.  For the past decade plus, the military had been in a situation where they felt they had too many folks.  The common response to complaints was, "Well, if you don't like it, then get out!"  Now, the military has too few folks, and they're starting to realize that they need to start fixing the things that folks complain about in order to keep people in service.  The Air Force in particular has had an extremely difficult time transitioning from the "then get out!" mentality.  Rather than realize that folks are in fact voting with their feet, the Air Force just tries to throw more money at them rather than deal with the real issues and complaints that folks have. 

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They’re not even really trying to throw more money. $35k/yr barely brings the bonus in line with inflation.

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30 minutes ago, The_Vandall said:

Rather than realize that folks are in fact voting with their feet, the Air Force just tries to throw more money at them rather than deal with the real issues and complaints that folks have. 

But the AF isn’t throwing money at anyone...

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34 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

They’re not even really trying to throw more money. $35k/yr barely brings the bonus in line with inflation.

Agreed.  $35K is not enough.  I believe they tried to raise it higher ($42K or $45K I think), but it still wouldn't be enough.  The insidious part of the bonus though is the ADSC that comes with it.  For whatever reason, the Air Force seems to feel like it is perfectly fine to F over folks that are stuck with an ADSC. 

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5 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

They asked for $60k a year and were denied. John McCain thinks we get paid enough.

He is the reason why the costs we pay out of pocket to cover rental housing expenses are increasing to what, 5% next year.

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5 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

They asked for $60k a year and were denied. John McCain thinks we get paid enough.

Back in McCain's day, you could just draft people to fill the gaps.

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Back in McCain's day, you could just draft people to fill the gaps.

Or you cheat on your wife to marry an millionaire heiress.

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Back in McCain's day, you could just draft people to fill the gaps.

The IPs at Corpus still chuckle to this day about him having to crash in the Corpus Christi Bay and almost drowning. I would have never heard about this happening if it weren't for those guys. And he didn't know his emergency procedures on his solo. Who needs to know that crap?

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8 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

They asked for $60k a year and were denied. John McCain thinks we get paid enough.

The McCain excuse is nearing an end, if not already there.  McCain had decades of service, but his time is at an end.

If the AF brass really wanted to push for more money for pilots, they could do it again.  McCain doesn't even vote anymore due to his illness.

The party line is still that a $35K pilot bonus is enough.  It will be interesting to see the take rates when they start coming out.  The will be abysmal and continue the trend of being lower than the previous year's take rate.  

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8 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

Ironic on his part.. inflation adjusted, we get paid less than he did to fly.

At least all of my flights have ended with me sleeping in either my own bed or a hotel. I’ve never stayed at Hilton that I wasn’t free to leave the next day. 

But yeah, he does seem to think we’re overpaid as it is.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, ihtfp06 said:


I’ve met some Army O-6s who probably couldn’t keep a job managing a Taco Bell, so the pay/job security probably keeps some in.

As one currently working with Big Green and International Green: I think you're right...and those guys are still head-and-should above some of their international cohorts.  I've seen several "leaders" here who couldn't hold down a job taking out the trash...anywhere...validated because I've witnessed them fail at that exact task...repeatedly.

Yes, it could be worse.

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Group exec submits two CGO packages for the Group. Other squadrons submit one package per unit. Group gets called out by awards board personnel. Group exec is triggered by my email. Email is fired off by Group exec saying the Gp/CC ultimately determines the winner for each category of packages. He said, "It's not fair these individuals at the Group have not been considered for any awards for a year. They don't have a squadron."

Why the hell are you wasting my time grading these packages if the Gp/CC can do whatever he wants? I got other crap I could be doing. 

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Group exec... 

Humble, compassionate, and un-selfish.  Clearly the man we want leading tomorrow's Air Force. 

"Streamlined Gp awards process; 69 manhours saved! Definitely Promote"

Edited by FourFans130

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The party line is still that a $35K pilot bonus is enough.  It will be interesting to see the take rates when they start coming out.  The will be abysmal and continue the trend of being lower than the previous year's take rate.  

The take rates are artificially high right now because for the bonus eligible year groups the past couple years, this wasn’t their first chance to leave AD. The take rates will truly be abysmal when the non VSP eligible year groups’ commitments are up (08 or 09?).

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4 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:


The take rates are artificially high right now because for the bonus eligible year groups the past couple years, this wasn’t their first chance to leave AD. The take rates will truly be abysmal when the non VSP eligible year groups’ commitments are up (08 or 09?).

I'll be curious to see how they report the take rates.  If they report them just as overall "percent who took the bonus", this year will have a significant spike because they retroactively included all the 12Xs that were left out of last years bonus.  Any 12X with an ADSC that expired prior to 2017 is now eligible for a bonus (if it doesn't take them past 24 YAS).  There's 4-6 years at $20K/year and 7-9 years at $25K/year, half up front.  Almost every older 12B I know is jumping all over it, taking the bonus that will get them right to 20, mostly because they all planned to retire anyway.  Among 12Bs in the B-1 community, those tiers (10 and 11, I think?) will have an almost 100% take rate because those guys (myself included) had already made the decision to stick around until retirement.

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1 minute ago, pawnman said:

I'll be curious to see how they report the take rates.

Spoiler Alert: They'll spin and report it in whatever way most soften the fact that people are leaving.

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The cynical part of me agrees that the expanded WSO bonus was just to make the "Aircrew" retention numbers look better.

However, at some point they still have to talk pilot numbers.  The messaging from SECAF/CSAF has repeatedly talked about a 2K pilot shortfall, not aircrew.  So reporting, "Hey Congress, bonus takers are up, our retention plan is working!" doesn't work because the pilot shortage is still 2K.

This next won't be popular, but the WSO takers are mostly guys who were going to 20 anyway as mentioned above.  It's also not like there is an equivalent lucrative civilian job like the airlines.  Personally I think the WSO bonus should have just been added onto the pilot bonus to make it a $60K pilot bonus.  You might actually get some pilots to stay for that money.  

An even better idea would be to just get rid of all these stupid bonus offers and just give pro pay like doctors.  Give an extra $3K a month to all aircrew as part of their pay.  That would go a lot further to making the entire crew force feel appreciated.

Edited by Hunter Rose

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1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Spoiler Alert: They'll spin and report it in whatever way most soften the fact that people are leaving.

The Air Force propaganda machine looks like it dusted off Enron’s playbook.

”Don’t panic, everything is fine...”

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11 hours ago, Homestar said:

At least all of my flights have ended with me sleeping in either my own bed or a hotel. I’ve never stayed at Hilton that I wasn’t free to leave the next day. 

But yeah, he does seem to think we’re overpaid as it is.

 

True, but the unfortunate events that happened to him are a separate discussion from pay.

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