Jump to content

What's wrong with the Air Force?


Catbox

Recommended Posts

Good news gentlemen, the pilot AFSCs will be separated for promotion boards. The bad news is that, according to HAF, pilots will have less people promoted to O-5 and above. Acquisitions will have the greatest increase because reasons.

I hear the Guard/Reserves are hiring though. And the airlines

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So does that mean more Maj line IPs and less of those individuals forced to move on as new O-5s? In a backasswards way, maybe it’ll some what improve retention. Probably not, but this may actually not be as bad as some probably think it is (not that I would ever advocate staying on AD any longer than you absolutely have to). 

Edited by brabus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, brabus said:

So does that mean more Maj line IPs and less of those individuals forced to move on as new O-5s? In a backasswards way, maybe it’ll some what improve retention. Probably not, but this may actually not be as bad as some probably think it is (not that I would ever advocate staying on AD any longer than you absolutely have to). 

Yeah. Nothing improves retention like telling people they aren't worth promoting

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Yeah. Nothing improves retention like telling people they aren't worth promoting

It was a mostly tongue in cheek statement. Though I actually know a couple guys who don’t want O-5 (due to the attached strings that currently go with it), but still want to stay AD for a host of reasons. Not for most of us, but to each their own. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Bender said:

 


What strings currently come with it?

Bendy

 

School, undesirable attached jobs, undesirable PCSs, higher 365 threat, a command they don’t want, etc. I’m just the messenger, not saying these are my opinions. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

They wouldn't care so much if the pay were to rise more significantly with time in service.

That’s not going to happen. Gotta get buy in from the sister services and there is no way the Army is going to agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Make a pilot pay scale like doctors that accounts for the lost money due to not promoting


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

I agree that pilots should be compensated in the same fashion as doctors, but why not promoted at the same rate also? The promotion rate for doctors to O-5 is practically 100%. Over the course of one’s career, a pilot is (IMHO) tasked with more leadership challenges befitting an FGO than any military doc I’ve ever seen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Non-line vs Line. Old mentalities. Broken systems. DOPMA. The list goes on. Lots to fix and Fingers ain’t gonna cut it. Just look at AMC...they released a 120 page supplement of ADDED material to 11-202...to reduce pubs. This is in addition to another 100+ page 11-2MDS that will only shrink maybe 20 pages.

The machine just doesn’t care.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

School, undesirable attached jobs, undesirable PCSs, higher 365 threat, a command they don’t want, etc. I’m just the messenger, not saying these are my opinions. 


1. Undesirable attached jobs go to O-4’s
2. PCS’s will happen regardless
3. 365, O-4’s are same boat.
4. Simple, don’t apply for the CC list
5. School? Don’t apply/decline.

There are a LOT of O-5’s flying the line because of the experience shortage.

It’s awesome.

If you are a pilot, especially an 11F, the USAF needs you more than you need it.

Don’t avoid O-5 because you think life gets worse, it’s not true.



Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Non-line vs Line. Old mentalities. Broken systems. DOPMA. The list goes on. Lots to fix and Fingers ain’t gonna cut it. Just look at AMC...they released a 120 page supplement of ADDED material to 11-202...to reduce pubs. This is in addition to another 100+ page 11-2MDS that will only shrink maybe 20 pages.

I saw this, also. TL/DR. There's a lot of books and research into how complexity causes collapse... in systems, organizations, societies, civilizations. The Air Force seems to be following the roadmap precisely. Some of the biggest hallmarks are:

- Continuous increase in complexity in spite of diminishing and even declining returns

- Reaching a level of complexity that is unsustainable due to....

- An exhaustion of resources. (Labor and funding)

- Insufficient response to circumstances due to set thinking/creeping normalcy

- Mismanagement by an out of touch elite leadership.

All we're missing are external shocks from the economy, competition (in progress), and conflict.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, brabus said:

School, undesirable attached jobs, undesirable PCSs, higher 365 threat, a command they don’t want, etc. I’m just the messenger, not saying these are my opinions. 

No flyers are going to be forced into a command without applying for one.  It's possible they'll apply for command and get one they didn't really want... But they aren't going to be SQ/CCs without applying for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, pawnman said:

No flyers are going to be forced into a command without applying for one.  It's possible they'll apply for command and get one they didn't really want... But they aren't going to be SQ/CCs without applying for it.

Some communities are “all in” meaning there is no applying for command.  

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, pawnman said:

No flyers are going to be forced into a command without applying for one.  It's possible they'll apply for command and get one they didn't really want... But they aren't going to be SQ/CCs without applying for it.

I know a couple who were given the choice of command or separate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Some communities are “all in” meaning there is no applying for command.  

Cyber is all in now.  Which means you can roll of a ops unit, taking the fight to the enemy

and doing cool things.

And roll into command a communications cyber squadron at Tinker fixing email and cell phones.

https://tenor.com/NsbZ.gif

Edited by 17D_guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, brabus said:

I know a couple who were given the choice of command or separate. 

Explain yourself (in a Stewie voice).

Did these guys apply for command, get accepted, then not want the command they were assigned?

I've never heard of a non-vol commander.  I have heard of command-selects get non-vol'd to deployed command.  But that's different entirely.

Or are we talking about different O-5 communities?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Some communities are “all in” meaning there is no applying for command.  

I've never heard of this in the aviation community.  I've seen it in support and MX, but flying squadrons have enough officers to pick and choose.  I've rarely seen flying squadron commanders who weren't BTZ, and I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't a school graduate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I've never heard of this in the aviation community.  I've seen it in support and MX, but flying squadrons have enough officers to pick and choose.  I've rarely seen flying squadron commanders who weren't BTZ, and I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't a school graduate.

I’m estimating here, I think we’re about 70/30 IPZ SQ/CC over BPZ for ops sq commanders in AFSOC.  And about 60/40 school grad versus not.  Those numbers are pure anecdotal guesses from my niche view.  Also everyone is considered for command unless you specifically opt out.

That said, even if you make the list you might not be matched within AFSOC.  If you aren’t matched, you can still be offered any number of commands outside AFSOC but there’s no blowback in turning one of those down.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

I’m estimating here, I think we’re about 70/30 IPZ SQ/CC over BPZ for ops sq commanders in AFSOC.  And about 60/40 school grad versus not.  Those numbers are pure anecdotal guesses from my niche view.  Also everyone is considered for command unless you specifically opt out.

That said, even if you make the list you might not be matched within AFSOC.  If you aren’t matched, you can still be offered any number of commands outside AFSOC but there’s no blowback in turning one of those down.  

Clearly I joined the wrong community for career progression.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Homestar said:

Explain yourself (in a Stewie voice).

Did these guys apply for command, get accepted, then not want the command they were assigned?

I've never heard of a non-vol commander.  I have heard of command-selects get non-vol'd to deployed command.  But that's different entirely.

Or are we talking about different O-5 communities?

No application, offered 2-3 CC options, which they didn’t want any of them, so they left AD. WG/CC said take the “last option” or you can retire to one of them, and the same except here’s a shit sandwich 365 to the other (he separated at 18 years).

I know this is hard to believe from a CAF perspective (pawnman’s experience is CAF standard), but it certainly happens elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Cyber is all in now.  Which means you can roll of a ops unit, taking the fight to the enemy

and doing cool things.

And roll into command a communications cyber squadron at Tinker fixing email and cell phones.

https://tenor.com/NsbZ.gif

And it shows.  A cyber CC got fired in Germany this year for behavior that was baffling.  I dont understand how some of these people develop such an overdeveloped sense of entitlement.

Cyber is one of the only communities that share a problem with the pilot world: high training/entry requirements, and a robust market outside the military willing to pay for talent.  The thrash incurred moving people from DCO, to OCO to Enterprise and back to Comm Flight just drives more to industry.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...