DirtyFlightSuit Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Lawman said: After Bastion people suddenly remembered this was a war and actions like the brigade at KAF put the pathfinders on the line in the dark because we had no idea if we were next. T walls instead of a cheap unguarded chain link fence. Crew chiefs were launching aircraft strapped, because of anything is more vulnerable than a parked aircraft it’s a parked aircraft with an APU and engines running. Really it was a wake up call to stop pretending just because you could go to the boardwalk and get ice cream you weren’t in a war zone. I don't understand how any one can consider a "conflict" like Afghanistan a "War" zone. Yes stuff is exploding, people are dying, but I'm sorry when you've been at it this long it can't be considered a War any more. It's like the 3 star making a plea to a auditorium full of pilots that are approaching their ADSC to please stay in because we are needed to keep releasing bombs, support the war etc etc. I'm sorry but when I've been deploying to that conflict for my entire 12 years in, when that conflict was already 6 years old the whole point becomes lost. This isn't an excuse for people to get complacent, because that can easily mean you are risking others and your own lives while out there. But calling this long term live action shooting range a "War" gives it too much credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, DirtyFlightSuit said: I don't understand how any one can consider a "conflict" like Afghanistan a "War" zone. Yes stuff is exploding, people are dying, but I'm sorry when you've been at it this long it can't be considered a War any more..... This isn't an excuse for people to get complacent, because that can easily mean you are risking others and your own lives while out there. But calling this long term live action shooting range a "War" gives it too much credit. Afghanistan is definitely a war. What is the timeline when a war becomes a conflict in your mind? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breckey Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The "modern" Indian Wars lasted from the end of the American Civil War to almost 1900. Afghanistan still has a was to go if it wants to meet that benchmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseClub Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 In my mind you try to win a war. There is no timeline. When all you’re doing is maintaining the status quo...I’m not sure what the hell you call that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 hours ago, MooseClub said: In my mind you try to win a war. There is no timeline. When all you’re doing is maintaining the status quo...I’m not sure what the hell you call that. politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Agreed, not a war. A lot of other things: monumental waste of resources among them tops my list. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper154 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 20 hours ago, uhhello said: Loved flying over that house directly on the fence every day and picturing a dude stepping out with an RPG and making things interesting Was always interesting driving around to other side of base through sniper alley with that house right there as well. There were a bunch of locals (I think, they had afghan style clothing) contracted to remove the old Russian mines that were within a rocks throw from the fence. For 4 months I was always on high alert, no one else in the crew can ever seemed to care but it had the makings of a great attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyFlightSuit Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 hours ago, MooseClub said: In my mind you try to win a war. There is no timeline. When all you’re doing is maintaining the status quo...I’m not sure what the hell you call that. Moose does a much better job of explaining my lack of respect for what we are doing in that region of the world. Give me a clear obtainable objective and maybe I'd agree its a war. But we are just spending blood, and treasure for nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 5 hours ago, MooseClub said: In my mind you try to win a war. There is no timeline. When all you’re doing is maintaining the status quo...I’m not sure what the hell you call that. Fair enough. I won’t quibble with semantics, and I concur with the frustration. I still think AFG is a war; using your definition: one side is trying to win. And succeeding. It’s just not our side. To me that doesn’t make this “not war” it makes us dumb. We seem to think WW2, which was historically anomalous, is the standard “war” and drawn out, ambiguous, sporadic fighting is abnormal and unworthy of study. But it’s all war. We’re just bad at it. Not trying to put words in your mouth, that spear is aimed at USAF PME. And I don’t blame politicians, I blame our generals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprkt69 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 2 hours ago, tac airlifter said: And I don’t blame politicians, I blame our generals. I blame both. I will also raise you the O-6s whispering stupid nothings via PowerPoint in between rounds of using up knee pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one1 Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, tac airlifter said: And I don’t blame politicians, I blame our generals. The military objective was to dismantle AQ in Afghanistan and deny the opportunity to use Afghanistan as a safehaven for attack planning against the homeland. We won the war in a few months. The problem is when politicians decided that democracy and a strong central government was important in Afghanistan. That is not an objective that can be achieved with warfare alone. Any general that thinks that is a reasonable objective is more politician than military leader. Edited November 10, 2018 by one1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frog Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 6 hours ago, one1 said: The military objective was to dismantle AQ in Afghanistan and deny the opportunity to use Afghanistan as a safehaven for attack planning against the homeland. We won the war in a few months. The problem is when politicians decided that democracy and a strong central government was important in Afghanistan. That is not an objective that can be achieved with warfare alone. Any general that thinks that is a reasonable objective is more politician than military leader. This. And this is very much a war to the other side. You can't consider it "not a war" just because the enemy doesn't play to your strengths. They are most definitely using violence to achieve political objectives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 As long as the American public allows themselves to believe that the current conflicts cost them nothing more than an occasional “thank you for your service”, nothing will change. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseClub Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Prozac said: As long as the American public allows themselves to believe that the current conflicts cost them nothing more than an occasional “thank you for your service”, nothing will change. ^exactly Stuff in the Middle East couldn’t be further from the minds of typical Americans. My assumption is most politicians (and honestly prob many generals) are more than happy to keep their “wars” by in large out of the public eye. Status quo and keeping the machine rolling is much easier that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger41 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 19 hours ago, one1 said: The military objective was to dismantle AQ in Afghanistan and deny the opportunity to use Afghanistan as a safehaven for attack planning against the homeland. We won the war in a few months. The problem is when politicians decided that democracy and a strong central government was important in Afghanistan. That is not an objective that can be achieved with warfare alone. Any general that thinks that is a reasonable objective is more politician than military leader. This is where the military worship throughout the nation has unintended consequences. We should’ve gone hard with the diplomatic solution over a decade ago and doing the FID type missions to augment it*. The government doesn’t want to ever just tell DoD “no”. Problem is that the military is a hammer but we need to paint a portrait. You can use a hammer to construct the picture frame, but at some point you need to use a brush. *If you want to kill your way out of it, commit to that. I personally don’t think that’ll work but have a clear end state and put resources towards achieving it. An interesting book on the subject is “War on Peace” by Ronan Farrow. The book worships diplomacy a bit too much in my opinion, but it’s very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war007afa Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Food for thought today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Food for thought today... Accurate. In my career I’ve had two great Sq/CCs and four who’ve ranged from piss poor to adequate. I’ve always laughed whenever a Lt has told me “we have a great commander!” Never listen to an Lts recommendation on CCs, beer, cars or Strip Clubs (or anything else for that matter). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyFlightSuit Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Lts view of strip clubs.... Oh Wild Child's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Worth a read for those who weren't around 20+ years ago... Quote Criticism Over Blast Leads Top Air Force General to Retire The top general of the Air Force said today that he would retire early, in part because he believed one or more Air Force officers would unfairly be held responsible for the terrorist attack in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 airmen last year, lawmakers and Pentagon officials said. The officer, Gen. Ronald R. Fogleman, said he would step down by Sept. 1, a year before his four-year term expires. General Fogleman, a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff since 1994, would become the first Air Force Chief of Staff to leave voluntarily before his tenure was up. General Fogleman, 56, a highly decorated Vietnam-era fighter pilot, has told associates in recent weeks that he would leave if Defense Secretary William S. Cohen punished Air Force commanders for failing to prevent the bombing, at the Khobar Towers housing complex in Dhahran. In a statement issued today, General Fogleman said his decision was intended to ''defuse the perceived confrontation between myself and Secretary Cohen.'' The general added, ''my values and sense of loyalty to the troops led me to the conclusion that I may be out of step.'' (Rest of article at title link) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyQuinn Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) If I wear my authorized parka with my ABUs will the shoe force come after me? They stripped me of my leather jacket with a fleece liner made by no other than Mr. Kim in Songtan. I must stay warm. #GP/CC #Hatespilots #Haterade Edited November 14, 2018 by HarleyQuinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 You an wear your leather jacket if you wear blues. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyQuinn Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said: You an wear your leather jacket if you wear blues. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app Good point! You are the freaking man! I didn't think of that at all. This is why I love this forum. That will definitely get underneath the GP/CC skin. Maybe he will come at me just like a spider monkey. Edited November 14, 2018 by HarleyQuinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said: Good point! You are the freaking man! I didn't think of that at all. This is why I love this forum. That will definitely get underneath the GP/CC skin. Maybe he will come at me just like a spider monkey. Blues, leather jacket, wheel cap. Go old school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Be careful if they have a UOD defined then you might get in trouble for not wearing it. Which is crap, if these damn army flight suits become mandatory I'll just end up wearing my blues all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Manchester. 7 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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