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What's wrong with the Air Force?


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20 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

"Captain Hill chose to raise his hand and show up to the United States Air Force. When he did that there’s an expectation that he follow those core values and I think of it as this box of core values; the integrity, service and the excellence. He stepped into that box and he cannot step outside of that box without punishment."

STS

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I like this discussion. I feel like love and sexual relationships are a personal issue. Serving in the military is a professional thing. It is unfair to punish someone for their actions in their personal life. Just because people are married doesn't mean they love each other. Not all men can stay in love with one woman for the rest of their life. As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency, I think military personnel should not be punished. But what do I know?

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10 minutes ago, katdude said:

I like this discussion. I feel like love and sexual relationships are a personal issue. Serving in the military is a professional thing. It is unfair to punish someone for their actions in their personal life. Just because people are married doesn't mean they love each other. Not all men can stay in love with one woman for the rest of their life. As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency, I think military personnel should not be punished. But what do I know?

It's not just relationships, the ARMY made the argument hot chicks are a legitimate distraction towards mission accomplishment, by asserting ugly women in PR efforts retains more credibility. It was a bit hyperbolic of an argument, plus it fell flatter than a MAGA comedian at the Apollo, but there you go. A lot are thinking it, someone (the ARMY, go figure) was bound to blurt it out publicly.

I don't live in the world of what things should be, I live in the world of what things are. As long as men are always thirsty fuckers, thristy Fucketry around sexually marketable women (deployed or not) will endure. I'm not trying to make an endorsement here, I'm just saying....

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@hindsight2020 Me being in the Army Reserve for 3 years now - All I heard was that the Air Force indeed has the hottest women. And agree that hot chicks in an infantry squad or special ops squad will somewhat jeopardize the mission. Not because the chick in question in unable to carry out the mission; but because the dudes are "worried" about the safety of that chick during the mission.

43 minutes ago, YoungnDumb said:

But when your personal life involves banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too, there is a bit of an issue. 

Agree, personal life should be kept personal. That banging should happen out side of work in a hotel room, not in and around work area. But you know there's always these people that get a kick out of doing these things where they are not supposed to do it. That's the adrenaline in them giving them a high. Of course they have to suffer the consequences if they get caught.

@BashiChuni and @LookieRookie For downvoting what I said, please note I did mention that 

"As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency"

And obviously they are not competent if they are "banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too"

Edited by katdude
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or how about this... its against the fucking UCMJ.

boom. roasted.

i think i could fly just fine on one single beer and it wouldn't affect my military competency at all. and i could drink it in my personal life at my own house.

but its against the rules bro.

Edited by BashiChuni
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12 minutes ago, katdude said:

@hindsight2020 Me being in the Army Reserve for 3 years now - All I heard was that the Air Force indeed has the hottest women. And agree that hot chicks in an infantry squad or special ops squad will somewhat jeopardize the mission. Not because the chick in question in unable to carry out the mission; but because the dudes are "worried" about the safety of that chick during the mission.

Agree, personal life should be kept personal. That banging should happen out side of work in a hotel room, not in and around work area. But you know there's always these people that get a kick out of doing these things where they are not supposed to do it. That's the adrenaline in them giving them a high. Of course they have to suffer the consequences if they get caught.

@BashiChuni and @LookieRookie For downvoting what I said, please note I did mention that 

"As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency"

And obviously they are not competent if they are "banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too"

 

Just now, BashiChuni said:

or how about this its against the ing UCMJ.

boom. roasted.

 

The FUCMJ?

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Quote

I like this discussion. I feel like love and sexual relationships are a personal issue. Serving in the military is a professional thing. It is unfair to punish someone for their actions in their personal life. Just because people are married doesn't mean they love each other. Not all men can stay in love with one woman for the rest of their life. As long as their personal relationships are not affecting their military competency, I think military personnel should not be punished. But what do I know?

Quote

What are the rules of drinking alcohol in the military when you are a pilot? Are you allowed to drink the night before if you have an AM flight the next day?

 

silence-is-sometimes-the-best-answer-dal

Edited by raimius
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3 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

But when your personal life involves banging your professional life at work when explicitly told not too, there is a bit of an issue. 

Does that include the swing fest that happened at base ###? Wasn't there a few husband and wives participating? I can't recall all the details.

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7 hours ago, katdude said:

What are the rules of drinking alcohol in the military when you are a pilot? Are you allowed to drink the night before if you have an AM flight the next day?

Twelve hours bottle to throttle.  And it doesn't affect the grading of the IP when he ends up flying with the student he's railing.

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Twelve hours bottle to throttle.  And it doesn't affect the grading of the IP when he ends up flying with the student he's railing.

I thought it was no drinking within 50 feet of the aircraft and no smoking 12 hours before flight.

You know, because hypoxia. 

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God, reading through that doc reminded me of how bad the AF fcuked up that investigation and the subsequent witch hunt. I feel for the guys wife. What’s the Capt up to now? I’m assuming major airlines have a hard time with a Court Martial and Dishonorable Discharge.

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2 hours ago, Duck said:

God, reading through that doc reminded me of how bad the AF fcuked up that investigation and the subsequent witch hunt. I feel for the guys wife. What’s the Capt up to now? I’m assuming major airlines have a hard time with a Court Martial and Dishonorable Discharge.

Depends on the airline and how bad that airline is hurting for pilots...

 

Edited by Tank
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26 minutes ago, Hacker said:

I'm sure there are a ton of regional airlines that'd hire him.

Maybe. But a dismissal is a felony equivalent in civilian employment circles. So even for regionals it's probably a stretch; the regionals have plenty of low time applicants with clean criminal records. This cat is marked. Nobody in the civilian world gets confinement for consensual sex. So it's not an even playing field, when it comes to UCMJ adjudications versus the civilian criminal law landscape. I am of the opinion his sentence was an overreach.

And to keep it in the BUFF family: Kelly Flynn (ugh, beer word) got a straight up pass for doing the same fucking thing in 1997, while arguing sexist bias towards her as an affirmative defense for her bored fucketry in Minot, and the lack of hands or work ethic as a short-stint Buff co-pilot (IOW, the golden key defense, STANDARD). Walked away from a court martial outright, and into a layup general discharge, which allowed her into ASA and the eventual UPS job she's been riding on since 2005, her name legally changed of course.

Nevermind the fact she got zero confinement for her equal disregard for the almighty UCMJ. The civilians at the time absolutely sided with her in her quest to decry the anachronisms of the "patriarchal military justice system". But this cat does the same thing 20 years later, even making a similar UCI argument on appeal no less, and this is all of a sudden blasphemy? I can't stand that hypocrisy.

Look, I don't personally know this cat, but what they did to him punishment wise is bullshit. Hell, give him confinement as the price for pulling that insubordinate sexual stunt (beats a barrel roll in a Q400 I suppose). But the dismissal (dishonorable equivalent for officer) was flagrant. Different spanks for different genitals. Equality my ass.

The SQ/CC in question was a straight up POS, and ruined the careers of other young men who actually didn't do anything but be falsely accused by the spouses of bitter SNAPs who didn't get their dream assignment. Not a good track record for DLF on this front.

Edited by hindsight2020
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4 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Maybe. But a dismissal is a felony equivalent in civilian employment circles. So even for regionals it's probably a stretch; the regionals have plenty of low time applicants with clean criminal records.

I think you're seriously underestimating the magnitude of the staffing crisis at the regionals.  "Plenty" is not an accurate term.

I know of a guy who went to jail for manslaughter....drove his 2-seater Porsche with two women crowded in the passenger seat while drunk, and the drive ended in a fiery crash that killed one of them...and who was hired at the regionals (by more than one airline, actually).

So...I am certain our disgraced IP he could find a regional that would hire him with a little looking.

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9 minutes ago, Hacker said:

I think you're seriously underestimating the magnitude of the staffing crisis at the regionals.  "Plenty" is not an accurate term.

I know of a guy who went to jail for manslaughter....drove his 2-seater Porsche with two women crowded in the passenger seat while drunk, and the drive ended in a fiery crash that killed one of them...and who was hired at the regionals (by more than one airline, actually).

So...I am certain our disgraced IP he could find a regional that would hire him with a little looking.

There’s a former Boom Operator, turned AFSOC pilot, who was court martialed for drugs. He’s currently flying for a famous cargo company. Anything can happen. Timing is everything and it’s all about who you know.

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