What's wrong with the Air Force?

[Lawman]

So what? I wasn't even a pilot when OAF kicked off in the late 90s. However, I was doing intel at a certain federal agency. Talk to an old intel troop with knowledge about the operation or go to a vault and garner some SA on the subject. Those guys were well trained and took down an F-117. It wasn't luck...

 

I'm guessing by the timeline you just suggested your not exactly in the loop with the current goings on.

 

 

Given where UAS exist in the active targeting cycle and the targeting cycle it's self, the necessity/history of work of guys developing TTPs for the scenario described, and the current daily validation of them doing a lot more than just thump guys in man dresses who have at best a ZPU.... yeah drones have actually been doing a hell of a lot of proving themselves.

 

I guarantee you right now there is a drone orbiting somewhere that 20 years ago some Intel troop or planner would have said "we can't sent anything but the 117 there...."

 

And they are only getting more refined and supported.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tac airlifter]

22 minutes ago, cantfly said:

So what? I wasn't even a pilot when OAF kicked off in the late 90s. However, I was doing intel at a certain federal agency. Talk to an old intel troop with knowledge about the operation or go to a vault and garner some SA on the subject. Those guys were well trained and took down an F-117. It wasn't luck...

Again, so what?  So we have RPAs that won't survive (you assume) near-peer contested airspace?  They're RPAs; we can afford to lose a few.  Also, they aren't designed for that; they're designed to do exactly what they are doing now.  So why do you care that  RPAs haven't been "truly tested against a real adversary's military that can actually counter our punches?"  I don't care if they get tested in that environment or not, we paid for them to do what they're doing now (talking here about the 1/9).  I don't understand the point of your comment, hence I asked you to elaborate by asking you "so what?"

Regarding your "go to a vault and garner SA" line: what do you think that adds to the conversation?  I'm not impressed by your comments about yourself.

Edited May 3, 2017 by tac airlifter

[ViperStud]

1 hour ago, cantfly said:

I was looking at some AFPC slides regarding selection for 365s. They look at the following: STRD, number of short tours, prior time puts you out of your year group, and TAFMSD.

 

While technically that's correct, once someone becomes "hot" for a remote that still doesn't mean they'll get tasked with one. AFPC won't slip someone already on a VML or fragged for school soon, they'll simply find the next unlucky dude for the 365. Also, high-vis hand-picked short tours (general's aide, etc) are typically ID'd a little further out and, once matched to a specific person, keep them safe from the random 365 tasking. A bright & shiny won't be derailed from their mentor's game plan simply because the STRD/TAFMS math made them "hot" on the 365 list. 

[Guardian]

While objectively that's how it should work.....subjectively it doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Guardian]

As far as RPA goes they have proven themselves for the fight that they do. The current RPA structure doesn't allow for a non permissive environment to do that mission. So you are both right. RPA are extremely valuable, expensive, and human cost intensive. And RPA are not currently cut out for a near peer war.

And in no way shape or form should RPA be at every base. Also bases are away from major populations more often than not for a reason. The military doesn't want to intrude on the local populace and vice versa. As much as I would like to be stationed in downtown anywhere it's not likely on purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Lawman]

As far as RPA goes they have proven themselves for the fight that they do. The current RPA structure doesn't allow for a non permissive environment to do that mission. So you are both right. RPA are extremely valuable, expensive, and human cost intensive. And RPA are not currently cut out for a near peer war.

 

And in no way shape or form should RPA be at every base. Also bases are away from major populations more often than not for a reason. The military doesn't want to intrude on the local populace and vice versa. As much as I would like to be stationed in downtown anywhere it's not likely on purpose.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

 

I honestly think if we could metaphorically hold a gun to their head and make them actually BRAC, it might not go the way most would want.

 

Votes are votes, and those nice locations with the functioning economies of a metro area don't really need or in many cases want us. Plus as stated earlier a military base is a huge landmass of developable (meaning valuable) property that could line a lot of pockets. Those outlier installations 3 exits down from the edge of nowhere don't really attract anything but social welfare votes.

 

I'd see them more likely to tell us enjoy Cannon/Polk/Fallon/etc while they close and repurpose the Mcdills of the force structure if you made them chose between option A/B.

[BashiChuni]

35 minutes ago, cantfly said:

If you don't want to garner more knowledge about the past then don't. Studying past conflicts prepares you for those in the future. There are rules on this forum we must adhere to and I enjoy having a clearance.  I'm not going to have OSI looking for me to prove a point. Go to the vault.

I love guys like you that tell others "go to the vault". 

Hilarious bro. If you knew tac airlifter you'd realize how ridiculous you sound. Even not knowing him you sound ridiculous. 

 

[Lawman]

Because I gave you a date of my previous career field, you assume I'm not in the loop?

When there is icing and thunderstorms in theater, manned aircraft still launch. If it ain't icing or storms trying to kill me, its a controller going an RPA went lost link and we don't know where they are as you say internally WTF and start scanning outside the jet.

 

Because it shows a lack of honesty on some of the more interesting things RPAs have been doing recently and are doing right now. There is plenty going on right now today with drones and other tools that resembles far more closely the scary scenarios than the permissive scenario of putting a predator orbit over a mud hut in Afghanistan for days on end.

 

Everybody wants to scream "RPAs aren't mature for the near peer fight" well after 15 years of coin-centric warfare neither is probably 60% of the military. The Army has only just been getting its shit in a sock to do Brigade level maneuver warfare again. I've been in units where my senior NCOs don't know how to put up a GP medium because up until now they've never had to.

 

But if you or others want to sit here and pretend that the RPA structure from tactical to strategic is just gonna throw up it's hands and say "we can't play" either you're inventing a scenario that doesn't exist or ignoring the laundry list of other systems/players/platforms that are going to be just as screwed or have to work around just as many issues in the nightmare worst case WWIII fight.

 

 

 

[cantfly]

4 minutes ago, Lawman said:

 

Because it shows a lack of SA on some of the more interesting things RPAs have been doing recently and are doing right now. There is plenty going on right now today with drones and other tools that resembles far more closely the scary scenarios than the permissive scenario of putting a predator orbit over a mud hut in Afghanistan for days on end.

Everybody wants to scream "RPAs aren't mature for the near peer fight" well after 15 years of coin-centric warfare neither is probably 60% of the military. The Army has only just been getting its shit in a sock to do Brigade level maneuver warfare again. I've been in units where my senior NCOs don't know how to put up a GP medium because up until now they've never had to.

But if you want to sit here and pretend that the RPA structure from tactical to strategic is just gonna throw up it's hands and say "we can't play" either you're inventing a scenario that doesn't exist or ignoring the laundry list of other systems/players/platforms that are going to be just as screwed or have to work around just as many issues in the nightmare worst case WWIII fight.

 

 

When the AF starts sending the E's to RPAs, they will be responsible for crashing them all. Doing every pilot a huge favor. I would sign off on a medal for that.

[BashiChuni]

35 minutes ago, cantfly said:

Would you rather me say get on NSA net because nobody here has access to it unless you are based in Maryland?

I didn't think "get into the vault" could be trumped but this post does it 

[mcbush]

3 hours ago, cantfly said:

When the AF starts sending the E's to RPAs, they will be responsible for crashing them all. Doing every pilot a huge favor. I would sign off on a medal for that.

I don't think anyone has any idea what you're talking about anymore. 

[tac airlifter]

2 minutes ago, mcbush said:

I don't think anyone has any idea what you're talking about anymore. 

Dude, it all makes perfect sense.  You just need to spend some time in the NSA vault in Maryland.  

[Homestar]

4 hours ago, Guardian said:

While objectively that's how it should work.....subjectively it doesn't.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

I always assumed they had a dart board in the 365 office and tacked a list of names up and threw a dart when they got put in a bind. I was hit with a 365 with just 10 years of service because I happened to check a bunch of boxes on the line remarks for the position. I was probably the only one on a 365 without prior E experience in that little corner of Afghanistan. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Homestar

[Guardian]

Dude, it all makes perfect sense.  You just need to spend some time in the NSA vault in Maryland.  

Classified Sword fight!!!!! 🤺


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Homestar]

Cliffs Notes:

Root Cause 1: The airlines are hiring like mad.

Root Cause 2: Demographic trends make it hard to be a military pilot.

Root Cause 3: We have been in a steady-state of crisis for 15+ years.

Root Cause 4: Despite that ongoing state of war, we have been under constant budget pressure and our job security has been at risk.

Second Order Cause 1: Military Pilots do shockingly little flying.

Second Order Cause 2: It isn’t about the money, but the Air Force made it about the money.

Second Order Cause 3: The Air Force organizational structure is not designed to retain pilots if they are not tracking to command and promotion to senior management ranks.

Second Order Cause 4: The Air Force personnel and manpower apparatus lacks the ability to maintain the “right” number of pilots at the “right” experience level.

 

I'm actually thinking of copy/pasting this and emailing it to Gen Everhart's suggestions box.

[cantfly]

12 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Cliffs Notes:

Root Cause 1: The airlines are hiring like mad.

Root Cause 2: Demographic trends make it hard to be a military pilot.

Root Cause 3: We have been in a steady-state of crisis for 15+ years.

Root Cause 4: Despite that ongoing state of war, we have been under constant budget pressure and our job security has been at risk.

Second Order Cause 1: Military Pilots do shockingly little flying.

Second Order Cause 2: It isn’t about the money, but the Air Force made it about the money.

Second Order Cause 3: The Air Force organizational structure is not designed to retain pilots if they are not tracking to command and promotion to senior management ranks.

Second Order Cause 4: The Air Force personnel and manpower apparatus lacks the ability to maintain the “right” number of pilots at the “right” experience level.

 

I'm actually thinking of copy/pasting this and emailing it to Gen Everhart's suggestions box.

Make sure you start your email off with "BLUF." If you don't, you will get a response from him or one of his exes with a cc sent to your CC about proper decorum and using BLUF in emails.

I saw BLUF in an email sent to the OG and the deputies the other day. I couldn't stop LMAO because I never begin my emails to them with BLUF. I include all the details in plain writing so one of our non flying deputies will understand. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by cantfly

[VMFA187]

51 minutes ago, cantfly said:

There are no vaults at the agency. Try calling the buildings there SCIFs. There is a huge difference between a building that's a SCIF and a building with a vault. They don't have a single person with a flight suit running through the buildings there and none of the squadron CCs are pilots .So you haven't been at liberty to see what I have in my 18 year career. When you have to take a polygraph and PASS to get access to the building in order to find out what I know, then we can talk more....truth.

If a Tact Airlifter needs access to TS, then we are all in trouble.

I may be the only one of this mindset, but does anyone here really care to set foot in that building? If there isn't a single person with a flight suit running around, there isn't a single reason I want to be in there.

[matmacwc]

People that know real things know they cannot brag about it, you under estimate most of us.

[Guardian]

Not me! I'm pretty stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Duck]

People know me... I'm a pretty big deal...


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[matmacwc]

Fuck that, I'm the boss, everyone knows me.

[Cooter]

2 hours ago, gearpig said:

Surely there is some part of you that wants to take a polygraph, if only to impress people on the internet.

[Clark Griswold]

4 hours ago, Homestar said:

Cliffs Notes:

Root Cause 1: The airlines are hiring like mad.

Root Cause 2: Demographic trends make it hard to be a military pilot.

Root Cause 3: We have been in a steady-state of crisis for 15+ years.

Root Cause 4: Despite that ongoing state of war, we have been under constant budget pressure and our job security has been at risk.

Second Order Cause 1: Military Pilots do shockingly little flying.

Second Order Cause 2: It isn’t about the money, but the Air Force made it about the money.

Second Order Cause 3: The Air Force organizational structure is not designed to retain pilots if they are not tracking to command and promotion to senior management ranks.

Second Order Cause 4: The Air Force personnel and manpower apparatus lacks the ability to maintain the “right” number of pilots at the “right” experience level.

I'm actually thinking of copy/pasting this and emailing it to Gen Everhart's suggestions box.

Not a bad article, similar to points made in other articles but cracking the edifice of stagnation, stubbornness, delusion and intransigence will take multiple hammer blows of common sense arguments, data and public humiliation of AF HR management of late.

Would have added to his Root Causes:  

The AF went expensive on the planes, cheap on Airmen; pitting human capitol for machine capitol. An apples for oranges trade that made multiple problems (cultural, force structure, loss of institutional respect/trust, etc...).  

Edited May 4, 2017 by Clark Griswold

[17D_guy]

4 hours ago, cantfly said:

Make sure you start your email off with "BLUF." If you don't, you will get a response from him or one of his exes with a cc sent to your CC about proper decorum and using BLUF in emails.

I saw BLUF in an email sent to the OG and the deputies the other day. I couldn't stop LMAO because I never begin my emails to them with BLUF. I include all the details in plain writing so one of our non flying deputies will understand. 

I know the BLUF emails get hate on here.  But having to deal with the current crop of Maj-Cols (sometimes 1-stars) and (MSgts-E9) that won't just get to the point, I understand why they now exist.  So many "Commanders" want to have a discussions about a problem and solution they're not going to own any part of.  So, we've got to sit there for 40 min while they hash it out, talking past each other with no resolution but tons of quibbling and requests for guidance, prioritization and pointing out where provided written guidance is lacking.

Ugh, I hate this job.  I told you guys our "cyber operators" get crew rest for a 5 hour sortie, right?

I generally just tell my Airman to give me the information in tweet length and problem solved.

[dream big]

5 hours ago, cantfly said:

There are no vaults at the agency. Try calling the buildings there SCIFs. There is a huge difference between a building that's a SCIF and a building with a vault. They don't have a single person with a flight suit running through the buildings there and none of the squadron CCs are pilots .So you haven't been at liberty to see what I have in my 18 year career. When you have to take a polygraph and PASS to get access to the building in order to find out what I know, then we can talk more....truth.

If a Tact Airlifter needs access to TS, then we are all in trouble.

Are you retarded? You clearly know zero about tac airlift or anything for that matter.  Go with quals, besides the NSA d*** measuring; or do us all a favor and STFU