BB Stacker Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I'm too lazy to go dig up the report (I think it may have been mentioned earlier in the thread), but the whole situation was an absolute clown show. The training in question was supposed to be related to AE's job....which as you might expect has nothing to do with hostage negotiation or rescue. Someone with rank had a good idea fairy moment and decided that the training needed "plussing up," so they directed a couple of (I'm assuming Med Group) CGOs and SNCOs who were in charge of the training syllabus to basically call an audible on the last day of training. The CGOs/SNCOs in question had something like less than 24 hours to come up with the "plussing up" of the training. The CGOs/SNCOs had zero training on any real training development process, much less something as fluid as a hostage negotiation and/or rescue, so they were basically winging it. They came up with a plan that involved a climax featuring driving a Humvee in close proximity to a whole bunch of people (my memory is fuzzy but I think it was something about the hostage takers driving into the compound to deliver the hostage back to US forces or something). Unsurprisingly, the mixture of untrained individuals operating heavy equipment in close proximity to a gaggle of personnel in a scenario that was not well designed and loosely controlled resulted in something getting out of whack and someone getting run over. BL the Col in question is probably lucky that no one preferred charges against her because the situation leading up to the death of the SSgt was some serious dereliction of duty shit. The fact that no one had the sense to call knock it off at any point in the process reflects pretty poorly on everyone involved. Edited January 25, 2015 by BB Stacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2013/GAIB%2C%20HMMWV%2C%20Montana%2C%2029%20Nov%2012.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2013/GAIB%2C%20HMMWV%2C%20Montana%2C%2029%20Nov%2012.pdfThat's not it but I can dig around and find it. Thanks ETA: http://www.amc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-141202-003.pdf Edited January 25, 2015 by Herk Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhhello Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) That's not it but I can dig around and find it. Thanks Weird. I just grabbed the first one that mentioned hmmv in it. I know I read the whole report but it's not up on the site anymore. Found it on the AMC site http://www.amc.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-141202-003.pdf Edited January 25, 2015 by uhhello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 ...Someone with rank had a good idea fairy moment and decided that the training needed "plussing up,"... It's amazing how much of this crap goes on today in the financially constrained/deployment heavy environment we're in. Some old-POS SNCO/FGO thinks the AF is babying the Amn/NCOs/CGOs these days and need toughing up. All my Amn are working harder, longer hours, with less support and funds than ever before. But somehow we're soft and don't know how hard it was back in the day, so additional training's got to take place. On top of the resiliency/CAF/Safety/etc days. Some idiot thinks additional support should be offered because it's a "nice to have" or throws us under the bus because we "won't" support an additional 5K customers without additional manning. God, I wish I was making that last one up. As a prior-enlisted, and old looking, officer I get rolled into this soft crowd, that doesn't understand how "hard" it was in the late 90's thru '07. It usually doesn't go well for that individual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It usually doesn't go well for that individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Note - interactions mentioned before were face-to-face. I subscribe to the arguing on the internet w/ retards rule. Edited January 26, 2015 by 17D_guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm too lazy to go dig up the report (I think it may have been mentioned earlier in the thread), but the whole situation was an absolute clown show. The training in question was supposed to be related to AE's job....which as you might expect has nothing to do with hostage negotiation or rescue. Someone with rank had a good idea fairy moment and decided that the training needed "plussing up," so they directed a couple of (I'm assuming Med Group) CGOs and SNCOs who were in charge of the training syllabus to basically call an audible on the last day of training. The CGOs/SNCOs in question had something like less than 24 hours to come up with the "plussing up" of the training. The CGOs/SNCOs had zero training on any real training development process, much less something as fluid as a hostage negotiation and/or rescue, so they were basically winging it. They came up with a plan that involved a climax featuring driving a Humvee in close proximity to a whole bunch of people (my memory is fuzzy but I think it was something about the hostage takers driving into the compound to deliver the hostage back to US forces or something). Unsurprisingly, the mixture of untrained individuals operating heavy equipment in close proximity to a gaggle of personnel in a scenario that was not well designed and loosely controlled resulted in something getting out of whack and someone getting run over. BL the Col in question is probably lucky that no one preferred charges against her because the situation leading up to the death of the SSgt was some serious dereliction of duty shit. The fact that no one had the sense to call knock it off at any point in the process reflects pretty poorly on everyone involved. Why court martial the Col, when you can court martial the CGO who came up with the scenario at the Col's request? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It's not entirely analogous to the AF and AFPC since we're more like inmates than customers, but crose enough. Interesting that behavioral science considerations are fairly high on some corporations' list in customer retention. The Rise of the Chief Behavioral [science] Officerhttp://recode.net/2015/01/28/the-rise-of-the-chief-behavioral-officer/?trending=yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Donuts Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 When I become a farmer several years from now I'm going to set aside room for a handsome young boar even though I won't really need him. I'm going to pump most of my time and money into him even though he won't perform nearly as well as the older boars on the farm (they'll need to be sold or slaughtered). I'm going to feed this bastard as much as possible so that he'll barely be able to waddle his fat ass around the farm. He won't even be able to make bacon with the lady pigs. But damn it all, he'll be a pretty pig and I'm going to keep his beautiful, sorry ass around and lose most of my money doing so. And all of the other animals on the farm, and my family, will suffer because of my stubbornness and stupidity. This pig will named "Lighting II". I'd also like to create my own original breed of pig. I'm going to ask all of the experienced farmers in my area about what characteristics would be the best to strive for. In the end though, I'm still me and I'll ignore centuries of experience. When I'm finished I'll have created a pig that looks beautiful on the outside but will have major problems like not having an asshole. "Who would have thought a pig would eventually need to shit?" I'll incredulously say. The experienced farmers, that's who. I'll sink a ton of time and money into this pig as well. And more suffering will ensue. I'll call this pig "Pegasus". It sure is tough to make a living by being a farmer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 When I become a farmer several years from now I'm going to set aside room for a handsome young boar even though I won't really need him. I'm going to pump most of my time and money into him even though he won't perform nearly as well as the older boars on the farm (they'll need to be sold or slaughtered). I'm going to feed this bastard as much as possible so that he'll barely be able to waddle his fat ass around the farm. He won't even be able to make bacon with the lady pigs. But damn it all, he'll be a pretty pig and I'm going to keep his beautiful, sorry ass around and lose most of my money doing so. And all of the other animals on the farm, and my family, will suffer because of my stubbornness and stupidity. This pig will named "Lighting II". I'd also like to create my own original breed of pig. I'm going to ask all of the experienced farmers in my area about what characteristics would be the best to strive for. In the end though, I'm still me and I'll ignore centuries of experience. When I'm finished I'll have created a pig that looks beautiful on the outside but will have major problems like not having an asshole. "Who would have thought a pig would eventually need to shit?" I'll incredulously say. The experienced farmers, that's who. I'll sink a ton of time and money into this pig as well. And more suffering will ensue. I'll call this pig "Pegasus". It sure is tough to make a living by being a farmer. Drink much? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Drink much? He's like that normally. And if you're implying you don't want to visit said farm with said pigs living on it, you sir are a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 A pig without an asshole? My 8-year-old self back in 1990 would appreciate this. Much less mess to clean out of then barn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 From the book I'm reading, "the happiness hypothesis"- "In another famous study, Ellen Langer and Judith Rodin gave benefits to residents on two floors of a nursing home—for example, plants in their rooms, and a movie screening one night a week. But on one floor, these benefits came with a sense of control: The residents were allowed to choose which plants they wanted, and they were responsible for watering them. They were allowed to choose as a group which night would be movie night. On the other floor, the same benefits were simply doled out: The nurses chose the plants and watered them; the nurses decided which night was movie night. This small manipulation had big effects: On the floor with increased control, residents were happier, more active, and more alert (as rated by the nurses, not just by the residents), and these benefits were still visible eighteen months later. Most amazingly, at the eighteen-month follow-up, residents of the floor given control had better health and half as many deaths (15 percent versus 30 percent).40 In a review paper that Rodin and I wrote, we concluded that changing an institution’s environment to increase the sense of control among its workers, students, patients, or other users was one of the most effective possible ways to increase their sense of engagement, energy, and happiness." Wasn't sure if I should put this here or the ACP thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The AF has released its stressed career fields list. It's a little funny how many of these were also VSP eligible just a few months ago. Stressed officer career fields: 11H Rescue Pilot. 11R Reconnaissance /Surveillance/Electronic Warfare Pilot. 11S Special Operations Pilot. 12M Mobility Combat Systems Officer. 13C Special Tactics Officer. 13D Combat Rescue Officer. 13L Air Liaison Officer. 18X Remotely Piloted Aircraft Pilot. 64P Contracting Officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) stressed career fields [*]12M Mobility Combat Systems Officer.Are you fucking kidding me? Edited February 11, 2015 by Champ Kind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The AF has released its stressed career fields list. It's a little funny how many of these were also VSP eligible just a few months ago. Stressed officer career fields: 11H Rescue Pilot.11R Reconnaissance /Surveillance/Electronic Warfare Pilot.11S Special Operations Pilot.12M Mobility Combat Systems Officer.13C Special Tactics Officer.13D Combat Rescue Officer.13L Air Liaison Officer.18X Remotely Piloted Aircraft Pilot.64P Contracting Officer. 12M. For the Nav on the 135????? They have like four of them at Wichita, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The AF has released its stressed career fields list. It's a little funny how many of these were also VSP eligible just a few months ago. Stressed officer career fields: 11H Rescue Pilot. 11R Reconnaissance /Surveillance/Electronic Warfare Pilot. 11S Special Operations Pilot. 12M Mobility Combat Systems Officer. 13C Special Tactics Officer. 13D Combat Rescue Officer. 13L Air Liaison Officer. 18X Remotely Piloted Aircraft Pilot. 64P Contracting Officer. How often is this list updated? Is this what is taken into account for continuation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) 12M. For the Nav on the 135????? They have like four of them at Wichita, right? Yes, the 4 of them are very stressed. Also do not forget the 4 at Andrrews on the VC-25. Edited February 11, 2015 by Butters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonut Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I doubt it would be underwhelming, but it would be expensive. But why are we using F15/16/18 to do what an AT-38 can do? Aren't they footing the bill for the F22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I doubt it would be underwhelming, but it would be expensive. But why are we using F15/16/18 to do what an AT-38 can do? Aren't they footing the bill for the F22? You need more than a radar reflector, the bad guys shoot back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDonut Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Can data link be added to simulate it? It looks like they need Mach 1+ too, not sure how they'd get around that. If we need it now, then we should do T38s. Or we could pay the Canadians or Brits to fly aggressor full time until we can sort out the pipeline mess. Congress wouldn't like that last option, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrooster99 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The AF has released its stressed career fields list. It's a little funny how many of these were also VSP eligible just a few months ago. Stressed officer career fields: 11H Rescue Pilot.11R Reconnaissance /Surveillance/Electronic Warfare Pilot.11S Special Operations Pilot. 11S, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 11S, huh? Weird that 11SF didn't make the list. I thought they'd be hurting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrooster99 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Weird that 11SF didn't make the list. I thought they'd be hurting. Special ops fighter pilot? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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