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What's wrong with the Air Force?


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Maybe if the clubs had decent food and service, and were remotely fun to hang out at, then they wouldn't be in the red and the WG/CC wouldn't be trying to figure out how to keep it open.

Exactly..who bothers with these things anymore anyway

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Back in the 80's I was tasked by my Sq CC to look into why the O'Club was losing money. At the time, funds from the club were siphoned off to other base MWR activities. I found the only time the Club showed a profit was when it was closed because no money was sent out the door.

Saw a Club Manager get fired at Shaw because he was not impressed with our Fighter Pilot Bar Olympics and, trying to get us to stop, told us "This is not your club." He was proven wrong. Score one for the good guys.

Sounds like mandatory supervised fun is still alive and well.

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Wing exec?

Here we go. Because he's not holding the picket lines with the rest of the AF haters, he's a butt-sniffing, ball-washing CCE.

6c0.jpg

And you, Sir, are a shining example of the reason why I am getting out. It definitely looks like I struck a nerve with you. Thanks for validating further, not that I really needed anymore validation, but I do appreciate it. From your wording, I can only assume you are either management or aspiring to be in management--I hope the kool aid tastes good. I too wish you the very best of luck in your career. May it be filled with multiple 365s, extraordinary PME experiences, never ending CBTs, a few stars, screwing over your people for personal gain, and endless queep piles.

And no, that post was not about kids meals, it is about how management tends to waste endless amounts of time on trivial matters that can be handled at much lower levels-if at all...

Sure sounds like it El Loco. Duder went full-personal on here...

I'm sure he's heartbroken that he solidified your reasons for leaving. You must be relieved that some dude on an anonymous internet forum has validated your life altering decision for leaving the AF.

My commanders never had any interest in making me their exec. Maybe it's because I lack certain queepy skill sets required of executive officers, maybe it's because I'm too ugly to use as the front man, maybe both. In fact, I'm a pretty average dude, with a career vector that shoots right through the middle of the bell curve, yet I still enjoy the club. It could be better (I long for the days of yore when the local talent was bussed through the front gate and to the front door of the O-club for us to fornicate upon), but the club is still a place where I can tie one on with the bros, have a beer with my boss, and call the shoes out for texting like a$sh0les. Unfortunately, with every pus$y that rebukes the club on trumped up charges like "the food is no good", "the service is lousy" or "I'm too cheap and antisocial to buy a messdress as I'd rather spend Friday nights locked in my masterbatorium", the club looses out on revenue and your bros miss out on your camaraderie.

I'm still on the fence regarding staying in beyond my UPT ADCS that expires in a year, but if I get out, it won't be because of crappy food at the club and my dues will be paid through 31 Aug 15.

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...... told us "This is not your club." He was proven wrong. Score one for the good guys.

Sounds like mandatory supervised fun is still alive and well.

Unfortunately, that doesn't always prove to be the case. Look at Laughlin. Unless something has changed in the long time since I've been there, but there used to be a pilot-centric club bar, which was turned into a sports-bar type motif rather than a pilot-type motif after non-pilot types complained about not feeling welcome.....at a UPT base.

Compared to Willie, where there was a back room that you could do pretty much what you want. Get pissed and want to punch a hole in the wall? Fine. Just leave your card number so you can be appropriately charged for the damage repair.

I agree there are lots of challenges for a club to survive, especially at more urban-located bases where there is ample off-base competition for business. And clubs have varying problems, some minor, some major. Ultimately, the membership will come if the club and the members work to make it their own. I would like to hope that the clubs aren't a thing of the past.

Edited by MD
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Long-term misconception....

There is ZERO requirement to have any party, etc at the club and spend any money. Leadership only wants the "official" function there and rightfully so....they cannot force you to spend any money at the Club. Period.

However -

1. Why not advertise that you are hosting the event at the club?

2. Provide ZERO beverage and food....

3. At the end of the night, offer an after party at whatever bar, etc that your class chooses....

4. Half the ######ers at track select/graduation are there for your free beer anyway.

Well, my experience at Del Rio didn't follow this. We were told you will do/buy X, Y, and Z (none of these were part of the official graduation) or you will not graduate. This came from leadership (IPs) after the club was telling us what we shall be buying from them and students trying to throw the BS flag.....

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I would like to hope that the clubs aren't a thing of the past.

To late... The only time I set foot in the Sheppard club was for assignment nights, and I can only recall going into the Luke Club for a mandatory wing pilot call and my graduation. While TDY we stopped by the DM club back in 2010 and the score of a crud game, from when our squadron was TDY there in 2006, was still there!

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If this is why you're getting out of the Air Force "like a rat from a burning ship," I'd say you're the one turning minute issues into big ones and putting important issues by the wayside. Good luck in your next career, I'm sure the grass will be much greener.

In all fairness, people are complaining about minute bullshit like the clubs because the big problems have been discussed ad nauseum with no fixes in sight. The most promising chief of staff in a generation is either unwilling or unable to fix the big issues plaguing this organization. I'm sure he's a fantastic guy to have a beer with, but it seems that he's just another politician manager in a long line of them, albeit one who isn't socially inept and really does give a great speech. Still waiting on that vector from January 2013...

Have you ever tried to manage a base club? Ever actually been involved and seen the budget breakdown on paper? It's a huge challenge just to keep some of these clubs open. Many of them have revenues in the negative--i.e. the Wg/CC has to figure out how to PAY to keep the club open. But yet people want and need the Clubs for retirements, promotion parties & ceremonies, dining in's, reunions, etc. And many people genuinely still long for the club to be a good/fun place to hang out, like it has been at various times in the past.

This is hardly the first time the lameness of the club has been discussed here. The AF reaps what it sows- it castrated the clubs in a knee-jerk reaction to public scandals, and then acts surprised when most people have zero desire to use it. Combine that with the younger generation of officers' desire to have a distinct work/life separation, and this is what you get. Fuck it, let it die.

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Compared to Willie, where there was a back room that you could do pretty much what you want. Get pissed and want to punch a hole in the wall? Fine. Just leave your card number so you can be appropriately charged for the damage repair.

I agree there are lots of challenges for a club to survive, especially at more urban-located bases where there is ample off-base competition for business. And clubs have varying problems, some minor, some major. Ultimately, the membership will come if the club and the members work to make it their own. I would like to hope that the clubs aren't a thing of the past.

Spent many Saturday mornings hungover in the Club assessing and repairing damage. The only complaint I recall was to stop using real dairy products when "pig piling" victims. Beer and whiskey was okay but knock off the dairy stuff because it reeked after a couple days.

Left AD a long time ago but the Club issues was the least of my concerns regarding staying in the AF.

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I grow tired of this new age culture that says we can't call it a Christmas party, have to take cbts on tolerating homosexuality, and trust us to carry gbus/hellfires but not carry a personal firearm. Call me old school, but the Air Force is too pussified for it own good anymore.

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Ultimately, the membership will come if the club and the members work to make it their own

True statement, but that will never happen unless the AF does an abrupt 180 (which I'll put a million bucks on will never happen). Clubs are still used to some extent overseas because it's close and easy to migrate over there when everyone's already too drunk to drive from work, but the level of use is still a far cry from the past I'm sure. But why the fuck would I go to one in the states where there's a ton of other establishments off base where I'm not paranoid about the SAPR gestapo, some shoe writing my name down for later consumption because they saw me do X, etc. Stop madness like that and the AF may see some revitalized use of the club. But when you castrate the "safety" of the club and make it somewhere where everyone has to closely monitor what they say and do, you drive people away. I'm not saying guys desire to do insane things, but even the slightest misspeak or perceived "bad" action these days could get you in a shitton of trouble.

What ever happened to people just leaving if they didn't like something? Instead they just go running to mommy and call foul.

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Exactly..who bothers with these things anymore anyway

Hot female bartenders and waitresses would draw people in. If the MSGs truly catered and advertised to 20-30 year olds with concepts such as hot waitresses (e.g. Hooters, Bikinis, etc.), evening base passes for multiple college slut friends, cool bands and free drinks for the ladies from 6-9pm, then it could be epic. Until that happens, I'll be seeing you at the local pub downtown.

...and the drinks and food have to be quality items too, of course.

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Hot female bartenders and waitresses would draw people in. If the MSGs truly catered and advertised to 20-30 year olds with concepts such as hot waitresses (e.g. Hooters, Bikinis, etc.), evening base passes for multiple college slut friends, cool bands and free drinks for the ladies from 6-9pm, then it could be epic. Until that happens, I'll be seeing you at the local pub downtown.

...and the drinks and food have to be quality items too, of course.

You mean the 60 year old hag that acts like she owns the place doesn't do it for you?
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The club at Vandenberg had a huge turnaround in 2010. They hired a legit outside chef, she came in and cleaned house. Food was great. No more stale potato chips with a "lunch." We actually took people there to eat instead of going downtown.

I don't know how it did after hours, because I lived 40 min away. But there were lines out the place for lunch, and no one bitched about the awards luncheons anymore.

It's really as easy as getting a professional in there with some pride in their product.

And hot chicks.

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Well, my experience at Del Rio didn't follow this. We were told you will do/buy X, Y, and Z (none of these were part of the official graduation) or you will not graduate. This came from leadership (IPs) after the club was telling us what we shall be buying from them and students trying to throw the BS flag.....

Well, anyone who fell into that scheme is a pure weak dick, pure and simple. Waving the BS flag - maybe with a limp wrist.

1. You trying to tell me that a young CGO (Flt/CC at KDLF) is telling the greater AF that a $1M asset won't graduate due to not wanting to spend $50-100 at the club? WTFO.

2. Leadership doesn't equate to IP's...

3. All I'm saying is that it is your money. You don't have to buy anything, period. Go do the "official" shit at the Club, but for heavens sake - if you think you have to spend $$$ on shit you don't want....really?

4. Send me your email address -- I have several Nigerian relatives that would love to get in contact with you.

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Well, anyone who fell into that scheme is a pure weak dick, pure and simple. Waving the BS flag - maybe with a limp wrist.

1. You trying to tell me that a young CGO (Flt/CC at KDLF) is telling the greater AF that a $1M asset won't graduate due to not wanting to spend $50-100 at the club? WTFO.

2. Leadership doesn't equate to IP's...

3. All I'm saying is that it is your money. You don't have to buy anything, period. Go do the "official" shit at the Club, but for heavens sake - if you think you have to spend $$$ on shit you don't want....really?

4. Send me your email address -- I have several Nigerian relatives that would love to get in contact with you.

That is unlikely. What isn't unlikely is that $1M asset getting sent to Creech.

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Kudos to whoever had the stones to put that back up there.

Chief of Staff noticed it missing and asked "WTF?" It was back up shortly thereafter. Maybe a "small victory," but I'll take all these small victories any day over the massive losses suffered under previous leadership.

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I had a lot of fun at the clubs on UPT assignment/grad nights and in Korea. At other clubs, SF actually sat outside waiting to harass people after a function. Also, I found at most holiday brunches I could get better food from the local buffet for 1/2 the price me and my buds who ate there all got sick as fook. But whining about the club like some on here is super Gaaaay as there are a lot bigger things to bitch about that matter. End thread//

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Chief of Staff noticed it missing and asked "WTF?" It was back up shortly thereafter. Maybe a "small victory," but I'll take all these small victories any day over the massive losses suffered under previous leadership.

That a true story? When did this happen?

I wonder which dickhead had the stones to gripe until it was taken down. Surely not the base CC?

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That a true story? When did this happen?

I wonder which dickhead had the stones to gripe until it was taken down. Surely not the base CC?

That was good few years ago it was taken down, unless it was replaced again recently?

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He mentioned it in that AFA speech a few months ago where he talked about mustache March. He said they should have their sign, and other bases should put up their own sign too, like Home of the Comm Guy and so on, since people should be allowed to take pride in their communities.

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