Vice Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Nice job thinking out of the box and all. But save the Barney Fife lectures for high schools and FTAC. If I haven't figured out by now that drunk driving is dangerous and expensive, a shocking slideshow won't help. I disagree. A shocking slideshow will get you thinking about things differently, especially with your mirror neurons firing off at the sight of massive trauma. Never got a Barney Fife-esque (had to Google that reference) slideshow at FTAC. All we did was go through a really dumbed down Myers-Briggs exercise so the SF kids could understand. TBH Big Blue already treats us in High School-esque ways, so a shocking slideshow isn't much of a strech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetfreezer Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Honest question: how is this even legal? I haven't been in the AF very long, and I'm trying to understand how commanders can get away with such inanity. I get it, they are "commanders"...but that doesn't mean they can just do whatever they want. There are limits. Anyone older & wiser care to chime in? Depends on your definition of legal...one base had a DUI sign by the front gate. No drama with service dress or anything, just a "Last DUI" squadron and number of days since the last, along with the squadrons that had been DUI-free for 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years. It was all taken down since it was deemed "hazing" to ID squadrons publicly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The IG is set up to prevent such bullshit... but unfortunately, the IG is often as corrupt as the careerist managers who perpetrate this nonsense. There are lots of people at the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and 60 Minutes that would love to hear these stories. If the IG doesn't work out... there are certainly other options. The media has always been there for the military in our time of need. Marching in formation is a skill I hope to never have to refresh, especially for someone else's fvckup and poor policy. That said (I'm just throwing a wild-ass guess out there), I think you'll be surprised that the WSJ or any other media outlet doesn't give a sh1t about stories headlined with "military officer thinks he's marching too much". Never talk to the media. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panchbarnes Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) 1-2 months ago secdef directed each service to come up with a plan to cut down on alcohol incidents and sexual assaults. This is lining up nicely with the Sept deadline. its just like the hi-vis rxns for sexual assault prevention activities. Duicon anyone? Edited June 22, 2014 by PanchBarnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The media has always been there for the military in our time of need.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1403397438.867754.jpg Marching in formation is a skill I hope to never have to refresh, especially for someone else's fvckup and poor policy. That said (I'm just throwing a wild-ass guess out there), I think you'll be surprised that the WSJ or any other media outlet doesn't give a sh1t about stories headlined with "military officer thinks he's marching too much". Never talk to the media. Shit yes, dude - this. So much this. Now, by NO MEANS do I think that marching an entire squadron due to one man's DUI is the best way to handle something like this, so don't get me wrong. However, what I'm about to say might piss some of you off: People on the internet discussing if marching to the gate due to a SQ DUI is an IG or "talk to the press" kind of matter make us sound like a bunch of dumb-fuck, no-good, booger-eating SNAPs. ("HOLY SHIT - HE MADE ME MARCH. IN MY ACTUAL UNIFORM!") The IG and the press will only answer with something like this: When you (and most of us here) perceive something as a bad leadership decision, do anything BUT start up with the stupid comments and whining. Instead, how about we discuss some ways to reduce ARIs that actually make sense? You never know...someone in charge might read it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustache Sally Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) I really don't think there is much we CAN do, unfortunately. That's the problem. I'm in favor of finding and implementing solutions to problems, and we all do it often. I get annoyed at people who bitch about life but then do nothing to improve it, so I'm on board with you. However, the bottom line is this: we can't control others' bad decision making, and we shouldn't be punished for it. Before I joined the AF, I taught high school and had high standards for my students. When the students failed to meet those standards--by not doing the work required and studying--they earned the poor grades they deserved. Guess who was blamed for the students' poor decision-making? Me. Not the students or their parents. Somehow I was supposed to control their every move despite the fact that I didn't raise them and saw them for about an hour a day. Incredibly frustrating, as is the situation at Holloman. What can we do? Here are my thoughts, and they've worked well for me so far: be kind to others. Be trustworthy. Treat those around you like professional, intelligent adults, not errant children or retards. Keep tabs on people without getting all up in their business. If someone's going through a rough patch, take him out to lunch to talk/vent/bitch and make sure he has something fun and constructive to do after work. None of this is mind-blowing, I know...but I have to say I don't see enough of this going on. We are all familiar with the "gotcha!" culture of today's AF and it's killing us. We will never have a 100% solution, but what we can do is simple and I believe it will have a significant positive impact. Does anyone else have ideas? I'm all ears... If Holloman's policy ever makes its way to my wing, and it happens in my squadron, I'll be sitting in my flight suit in the mission planning room teaching my students. I'll take the paperwork that comes after that. Edited June 22, 2014 by Mustache Sally 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chim richalds Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Is it just me or do most guys you know actually rebound from a DUI to have a decent career. I know several that it was just a speed bump along the way for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONE WSO Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Being charged with a DUI is not the same as being convicted of a DUI. If they parade you up in front of everyone in service dress it creates the impression that you are in fact guilty and could sway the potential jury members that are on that base. I'm sure a smart lawyer could bring this up at the trial, if it was on base, as unlawful command influence. Edited June 22, 2014 by BONE WSO 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 What percentage of DUIs are actually received on base? I doubt the good people on jury duty at the municipal court watch punitive DUI parades on base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Is it just me or do most guys you know actually rebound from a DUI to have a decent career. I know several that it was just a speed bump along the way for. Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Does anyone else have ideas? I'm all ears... Saw this on JQPs facebook page, this guy seems to get it. http://youtu.be/lhL5svtF5m0 Edited June 22, 2014 by Fuzz 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComingLeft Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 +2 Posted from the NEW Pro Version of the Baseops App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep. One of our top officers in the wing got a DUI back in UPT. Played his cards right and bounced back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 LT shield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 That said (I'm just throwing a wild-ass guess out there), I think you'll be surprised that the WSJ or any other media outlet doesn't give a sh1t about stories headlined with "military officer thinks he's marching too much". "Military officer thinks he's marching too much", of course not. "General Officer abuses power/people/resources in a time of extreme fiscal restraint", sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Officers? Nope. Enlisted? Yep. Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT. It's not really incorrect when the original question was do "you" know of anyone... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hispeed7721 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 So... what if on one of these "resilience days" we had a mass breifing like in the paragraph above with a little extra highlighting the financial costs associated with it? Better than destroying morale with a cluster###### formation. It's edutaining as well. This is exactly what has happened at HRT in years past. The fire dept came in and gave a very honest and uncensored brief about DUI accidents (it vaguely reminded me of "faces of death"). There are a handful of people at HRT that I know of who've received a DUI and haven't been made to do anything other than get a verbal beating and carry on with their job (obviously paperwork/etc is transparent from the outside). Never has any individual or squadron been forced to form up/march/etc. IMHO there is ZERO gained from doing that, either in learning a legit lesson or true punishment. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Incorrect, I know of a sitting wing/CC who got a DUI while we were in UPT. I don't think that will happen in the days of RIF and force reductions and crack downs on all alcohol use. 20 years ago, when this guy was an LT, you probably could bounce back. I'm frankly surprised that with all the other ridiculous dredging of skeletons lately that this individual wasn't removed from command for his UPT mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) There are lots of people at the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and 60 Minutes that would love to hear these stories. If the IG doesn't work out... there are certainly other options. Actually, I think this very forum and JQP have done a lot. Simply having a publicly-facing vehicle to communicate and vent has been a great resource to commanders who are smart enough to harness its value. As an example, I don't think there would have been some of the senior-level interventions during the Force Shaping fiasco had it not been for BO.net and JQP. I don't think a Fogelsong can emerge as a MAJCOM/CC in an environment where blatant command buffoonery is now impossible to hide. Edited June 23, 2014 by Dupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap-10 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I know a now GO who got a DUI when he was an O-6 and was PCS'ing to his new assignment. This was back in the mid 2000's. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I know a retired 4-star who got two DUIs during his career as well as was consistently "escorted" home by SFS many nights while a sitting Wg/CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schokie Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I know a retired 4-star who got two DUIs during his career as well as was consistently "escorted" home by SFS many nights while a sitting Wg/CC. Is this the same four star who was a recent AETC CC who was a prolific author on leadership for PME readings? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 ahhh, G-Lo. Mess up, fess up. Rumor was he was on the dean's other list 6 out of 8 semesters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 So the apparent answer to the question "Is a DUI recoverable?" is 'it depends.' Be a fast burner with top cover, and, maybe. How public was the fcuk-up, who knows about it, etc, etc. Be in the 80%, and I think not. That was my observation during my career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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