ANG/AFR Enlistment Question

[PilotPoe]

I'm currently a college student working towards a goal of getting a UPT slot with the Guard or Reserve (C-130s), but I'm considering enlisting now as a Load (C-130s) to help my chances and have some financial help. My question is, would I be required to serve the entire enlistment, or could I start working on my packet, interviews, OTS, etc. when I finish my degree? I'll be done with my degree before being done with my enlistment, and I was wondering if that's a possibility. Thanks for the help.

[Bayou_Eagle_Driver]

Yes, but you have to take a break from school to attend Basic and your associated tech school. Was about a 1yr break for me for Avionics.

After you get back and are done with On the Job Training, you can finish your degree and start trying for a UPT spot. Additionally, you're not restricted to just your unit either, you can apply to other units while you're enlisted, and if you get accepted, you just need permission to transfer.

[Ramathorn]

You do not to be finished with training to being applying. If you get accepted to an officer AFSC, it trumps your enlistment. When you are at basic, you're pretty much stuck, but I know a few people who interviewed during tech school. I interviewed during my on the job. It's really all down to the degree for timing, but enlisting is always a huge plus, if not just for the military experience.

[PilotPoe]

Oh, ok awesome. Thanks for the help! Also, does it play a huge factor in getting a slot if I were to have prior military experience? And as far as going about enlisting for a Load, I would first talk to that unit/units, then go to a recruiter, or what is the best method? Thanks again.

[LoadClear]

Oh, ok awesome. Thanks for the help! Also, does it play a huge factor in getting a slot if I were to have prior military experience? And as far as going about enlisting for a Load, I would first talk to that unit/units, then go to a recruiter, or what is the best method? Thanks again.

Prior military service is certainly not going to hurt you during an interview.

As far as being a LM, this will be beneficial in applying to UPT/UNT/any commissioned position in Ops. You will be working/going TDY/deploying/drinking with the people that will be on your UPT/UNT interview. If you're a good LM, have a positive attitude, and have kept your nose clean, you will have a serious leg up on the competition. Its tough to sell yourself in a 30 minute interview but if you know the people on the board well before you even show up, it certainly helps. Additionally, being a LM or a Boom Operator are arguably the best and most rewarding enlisted jobs in the Air Force. Alot is expected of you (beyond knowledge level but also in attendance) but moving up front appears to be much easier. In the three units I have been in now, alot of the pilot and navs were prior service LMs, FEs, crew chiefs and intel.

As for joining the unit, there is no official "interviews" per say for Loadmasters but they are a little more selective than Security Forces or something (I can say this because I was a cop before a LM). Call the recruiter, tell them you are interested in joining the ANG/AFRES and if they have any Loadmaster positions open. If they do, set up an appt to meet with a recruiter AND meet with some of the LM section. There will probably be someone there that would be willing to take you out to a plane and show you what we do.

While doing this, and if you get into the LM section, I wouldn't make it known that you are using the Load section to get a pilot slot. Some people wont have a problem with it, but some of the old timers that didn't have the educational opportunities that we do today or those who dont have the patience for new blood might. People in the squadron are going to find out you are going to college and getting closer to graduation and will probably ask you what your plans are afterwords. Moving up front is fine (and you should!) but don't walk around with a sign on your back saying "I want a Pilot slot". When I was hired for a Nav slot and moved to my new unit the Stan Eval and Chief LM sat me down and said straight out "Its great that you are going to Nav school but you're a LM until you leave and we expect you to perform as if you weren't going." Strict, but very good advice.

Best of luck! Being a LM has been an amazing experience but I'm ready to move up front too. If anything, you will have an appreciation for what goes on in the back of the Herk and for the sweatys on the crew and make you a better Pilot/Officer/Aircraft Commander.

[PilotPoe]

Seriously, Thank for the help, it helped tons.

Now as far as doing your time, I'm aware of the one weekend a month, two weeks out of the year deal, but then there is also a minimum for the flying part too, correct? How does that work, being a full time college student as well?

Thanks again.

[LoadClear]

Daniel, got your PM but saw you were curious about other things so thought I would respond here in case the information was useful for someone else...

As far as the work load, I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I'll try and cover it briefly. The thing about being a flyer in the ANG is there are about 10 ways to get paid and it can get really confusing. You have your UTA's (drill weekends) that equate to 48 pay periods per year. Each period is 4 hours and equals one active duty day. So a 2 day drill weekend (16 hours) is 4 pay periods of that 48 equaling 12 months.

Additionally, you have 48 AFTP's (additional flight training periods). It's alot like UTAs but are used for flights. You can burn 12 a quarter (48 for the year) but can max out at 16 a quarter if need be.

At least in the herk community, I haven't seen many units giving you your "2 weeks a year" because your on active duty throughout the year equaling more than 2 weeks. You will have the opportunity to go on trips, some work out great for college students (Friday-Sunday, etc), some don't (a week or longer). I got through my undergrad and graduate school as a Loadmaster that never worked another job.

There are different types of active duty (title 32 vs title 10), but I won't go into that, it would be explained when you're in the guard.

Then there is flight pay. There are differences between enlisted and officer flight pay and the longer you're in, it goes up.

When on active duty, there's housing and food allowance, in some cases, perdiem. Hell, I'm probably forgetting something else.

Regardless, most of the younger (and some older) LMs are college students. It's very easy to make it work. I took Tuesday/Thursday classes and flew on my days off, used my 4 day weekends for trips. I deployed over Christmas break and summers, etc. With that and your GI Bill, you won't need another job, you'll be building up military experience, airmanship, time in service, etc.

I see you're in florida and are interested in our unit in charlotte. If you need some info on the unit, lemme know. Hope this helps. If I've missed something and someone else wants to pipe in, please do!

-Ryan

[PilotPoe]

Daniel, got your PM but saw you were curious about other things so thought I would respond here in case the information was useful for someone else...

As far as the work load, I'm sure this has been covered somewhere but I'll try and cover it briefly. The thing about being a flyer in the ANG is there are about 10 ways to get paid and it can get really confusing. You have your UTA's (drill weekends) that equate to 48 pay periods per year. Each period is 4 hours and equals one active duty day. So a 2 day drill weekend (16 hours) is 4 pay periods of that 48 equaling 12 months.

Additionally, you have 48 AFTP's (additional flight training periods). It's alot like UTAs but are used for flights. You can burn 12 a quarter (48 for the year) but can max out at 16 a quarter if need be.

At least in the herk community, I haven't seen many units giving you your "2 weeks a year" because your on active duty throughout the year equaling more than 2 weeks. You will have the opportunity to go on trips, some work out great for college students (Friday-Sunday, etc), some don't (a week or longer). I got through my undergrad and graduate school as a Loadmaster that never worked another job.

There are different types of active duty (title 32 vs title 10), but I won't go into that, it would be explained when you're in the guard.

Then there is flight pay. There are differences between enlisted and officer flight pay and the longer you're in, it goes up.

When on active duty, there's housing and food allowance, in some cases, perdiem. Hell, I'm probably forgetting something else.

Regardless, most of the younger (and some older) LMs are college students. It's very easy to make it work. I took Tuesday/Thursday classes and flew on my days off, used my 4 day weekends for trips. I deployed over Christmas break and summers, etc. With that and your GI Bill, you won't need another job, you'll be building up military experience, airmanship, time in service, etc.

I see you're in florida and are interested in our unit in charlotte. If you need some info on the unit, lemme know. Hope this helps. If I've missed something and someone else wants to pipe in, please do!

-Ryan

Hey Ryan,

Thanks again man for all of the info.

All of the time required makes sense. Just another question incorporated with that. How far away was your college to the base? And in your opinion, what do you think would be the max distance (hrs wise) from a school to the base. There's really not a whole lot as far a 130s go down here. I'm aware of Patrick and Maxwell as being the closest on the AFR side, and Savannah, GA for the ANG side.

And yes, I would LOVE any info that you would be willing to share about the NCANG. That's where I want to end up after school. Thanks Ryan.

-Daniel

[LoadClear]

College distance varies for some guys. When I was in the MOANG, I was about 45-50 minutes to the base. While in the NYANG, I was about 30. Both were fairly convenient.

As far as max distance, there are a few factors there. Some units, especially in positions that require you to show up more than one weekend a month like to hire guys in the "local area", which is usually within an hour or two. Keep in mind, going in off the street, you'll probably be an A1C (E-3) and even if you flew a double, you might make $100 after taxes. Do the math, living in Florida and driving to Charlotte fairly often would not be financially conducive. Not sure if you are willing to relocate because of school at this point...

We do have some guys that live out of state though... DC, SC, a LM that even lives in Seattle. We also have a pilot who is an airline guy that lives in Hong Kong. Yes, Hong Kong. Because he is an airline guy, he is able to come back to Charlotte to fly some but we don't see him very often (shocking). How can he make it work? He's a Major and has a good airline gig with flight benefits. If you're serious about joining a unit while you're in college, it would probably be a good idea to do your homework as for transfer possibilities or a unit closer to home...

There are some units in Florida beyond Patrick, Maxwell, and Savannah. Someone else might pipe in with the info but there are some SpecOps 130 units in FL. Here is a list of units: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lockheed_C-130_Hercules_operators#.C2.A0United_States

Some of those are active duty, which obviously don't play into your decision. Don't rule out the AF Reserves either. If you have a desire to fly with the 156th in Charlotte, look into schools here. UNCC is a HUGE school and alot of our college going LMs go there. Go to UNCC's transfer credit advisor and find out what you would get credit for if you did move and transfer: https://selfservice.uncc.edu/pls/BANPROD/ywsktrar.P_Disp_States

I'll ask tomorrow if our Chief LM is in about how many open slots we have. I know we are pretty full right now but another LM and I are leaving for AMS/Nav school in the next few months so that might open up some slots. Let me know if you need any other info on the unit/LM section. Hope this info helps.

[PilotPoe]

College distance varies for some guys. When I was in the MOANG, I was about 45-50 minutes to the base. While in the NYANG, I was about 30. Both were fairly convenient.

As far as max distance, there are a few factors there. Some units, especially in positions that require you to show up more than one weekend a month like to hire guys in the "local area", which is usually within an hour or two. Keep in mind, going in off the street, you'll probably be an A1C (E-3) and even if you flew a double, you might make $100 after taxes. Do the math, living in Florida and driving to Charlotte fairly often would not be financially conducive. Not sure if you are willing to relocate because of school at this point...

We do have some guys that live out of state though... DC, SC, a LM that even lives in Seattle. We also have a pilot who is an airline guy that lives in Hong Kong. Yes, Hong Kong. Because he is an airline guy, he is able to come back to Charlotte to fly some but we don't see him very often (shocking). How can he make it work? He's a Major and has a good airline gig with flight benefits. If you're serious about joining a unit while you're in college, it would probably be a good idea to do your homework as for transfer possibilities or a unit closer to home...

There are some units in Florida beyond Patrick, Maxwell, and Savannah. Someone else might pipe in with the info but there are some SpecOps 130 units in FL. Here is a list of units: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lockheed_C-130_Hercules_operators#.C2.A0United_States

Some of those are active duty, which obviously don't play into your decision. Don't rule out the AF Reserves either. If you have a desire to fly with the 156th in Charlotte, look into schools here. UNCC is a HUGE school and alot of our college going LMs go there. Go to UNCC's transfer credit advisor and find out what you would get credit for if you did move and transfer: https://selfservice.uncc.edu/pls/BANPROD/ywsktrar.P_Disp_States

I'll ask tomorrow if our Chief LM is in about how many open slots we have. I know we are pretty full right now but another LM and I are leaving for AMS/Nav school in the next few months so that might open up some slots. Let me know if you need any other info on the unit/LM section. Hope this info helps.

As far as transferring to UNCC or any other state school in NC, how much would the Guard cover? I would be out of state tuition for at least the beginning. I'm about a year out from getting my AA Degree at the local community college I'm at.

The main goal for the NCANG is to get a pilot slot. As far as being a LM, that makes a lot of sense as far as the money that would be made vs. the money that would be spent in getting there. With that said, I'm still completely open to doing it, and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to talk to the Chief LM.

Thanks again Ryan.

[LoadClear]

Not sure how much the ANG covers as far as tuition goes. You would have to talk to a recruiter about what sort of benefits you would be eligible for. Keep this in mind though: When you are in the military, MOST colleges do not charge you out of state tuition. You would have to show proof of veteran status, but thats not an issue once you're out of tech school (military ID, DD214, etc), so I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it.

Chief Load was still out sick today. Maybe he will be in tomorrow. I'll see what I can find out for ya.

[LoadClear]

Daniel, heard yesterday that we do in fact have some openings in the LM section here in Charlotte. If interested or want more information, get in touch with MSgt Parsons at recruiting. His number is 704-391-4204. Play dumb like you dont know they have slots and ask. Your best bet would be to visit the unit and you'll be able to talk to both him and the Load section. I know you're not in the area but if you're serious, might not hurt to make a trip up to Charlotte. We (and most of the AF/ANG) is going through some "force reshaping" and we may lose/gain slots and the enlisted rank structure will be effected too. Drill weekends are usually the best time to visit as everyone is around and you could probably go out to an airplane to see what all goes on. Let me know if you need any more info.

Ryan

[PilotPoe]

Daniel, heard yesterday that we do in fact have some openings in the LM section here in Charlotte. If interested or want more information, get in touch with MSgt Parsons at recruiting. His number is 704-391-4204. Play dumb like you dont know they have slots and ask. Your best bet would be to visit the unit and you'll be able to talk to both him and the Load section. I know you're not in the area but if you're serious, might not hurt to make a trip up to Charlotte. We (and most of the AF/ANG) is going through some "force reshaping" and we may lose/gain slots and the enlisted rank structure will be effected too. Drill weekends are usually the best time to visit as everyone is around and you could probably go out to an airplane to see what all goes on. Let me know if you need any more info.

Ryan

Ryan

Hey man, thanks so much for all of the work and help for me. I greatly appreciate it. In your advice/opinion, do you think I should shoot for the NCANG now, or join a unit that is more local for the time being, finish school, then apply for a UPT slot with them? Basically, does it matter if I was in another unit gaining that military experience vs being in with NC? As I mentioned before, that is where I wanna be after school, flying as an officer. As for now, I would prefer to stay a little more local I guess, but still open to that idea as a LM with NC. Just seeing you thoughts on that. Thanks again!

-Daniel

[HawkJ2010]

Hey all, looks like I'll be jacking yet another thread instead of starting a new one. So I talked with both an ANG and Reserve recruiter about enlisting as a loadmaster. They both warned me that the job is competitive and I will need to first interview with current pilots/loads (something I already knew according to this website). So I played dumb and let the recruiter feed me all the information in case I missed something important.

Well... I was told to have a back up job in case loadmaster didn't workout (understandable) even though my heart is set on get an LM slot. I know he/she is a recruiter and trying to do their job but they were really cramming others options down my throat i.e. Security Forces, Flight Engineer, Administrative, Vehicle Transportation, etc. and I kept on wondering "Why?". I told the recruiter what I wanted to do but he/she wanted me to sign up for a big signing bonus gig, none of which I were interested in. He/She then continued to tell me that this is all due to the fact that I first take the ASVAB, go to MEPS for physical, select a job/interview, enlist/swear in, and go back for another flight physical. They mentioned that I can have the best ASVAB score, pass my first physical, be selected after my interview and swear in. HOWEVER, there is a secondary physical (which I did not know about) that can DQ me from becoming a LM. And if that is the case I will have to pick another job because I am already enlisted and sworn into the military.

My whole thoughts about the AFRes was that you got to pick the job you wanted and if you didn't get it you wouldn't have any contractual obligaition, and therefore let go. Is there something I need to know about? Thanks.

[LoadClear]

You will get your initial physical for entry into the AF/ANG/AFRES at MEPS. Once you pass that, you would be eligible to head to basic training and tech school for most jobs. The extra physical for Loadmasters and Flight Engineers is a Flying Class III physical which involves a few more things than a basic entry physical. Nothing crazy, but they just want to ensure you don't have depth perception issues, arent deaf or blind, etc. Its very basic in comparison to Pilot (Flying Class I) and Nav (Flying Class IA) physicals.

You will end probably end up enlisting before you pass your FCIII physical but after your initial physical. Its understandable your recruiter wants you to have a backup job. Is there any other jobs you might be interested in? If your goal is to be a bus driver/pilot, there are more jobs besides being a loadmaster than gives you plenty of exposure to the airplane and those who fly them.

[HawkJ2010]

I contemplated crew chief as they seem to have a pretty good connection with those in the flight crew... wouldn't it be safe to assume that if I cannot pass the loadmaster physical that I would not qualify for a pilot slot, also?

[LoadClear]

Crew Chief, intel, and life support would be great jobs with good exposure to those on the airplane beyond a Loadmaster slot.

You're correct, if you don't pass the Loadmaster FCIII, you aren't gonna pass the FCI or FCIA physicals as its the same physical with a few additions.

[HawkJ2010]

Well, damn. Lets hope I pass the flight physical.