First an AT-6...

[Prosuper]

I was talking to a T-38 mx guy who used to work for Cessna in Witchita who was on their JPATS bid. The Cessna 526 Citation jet was superior in all ways to the the T-6 which the Navy insisted on the side opening canopy and a turboprop. As mx lay person I don't understand a turbo prop trainer for USAF UPT studs which we only fly C-12's and C-130's in numbers plus not counting what SOCOM has in their inventory. The C526 looks like it would have been a great attack acft with that straight wing, lots of hard points. My friend told me after the competition the USAF told Cessna to destroy the acft. He called the T-6 the Sen Bob Dole gift to Beechcraft Kansas. I don't see the T-6 being around as long as the Tweet just because this acft wasn't built to take the abuse of the T-37.

Here is a link about the C526.

http://cessnawarbirds.com/2009/08/26/cessna-jpats-citationjet/

[SurelySerious]

As mx lay person I don't understand a turbo prop trainer for USAF UPT studs which we only fly C-12's and C-130's in numbers plus not counting what SOCOM has in their inventory.

Lower fuel burn would be one reason.

[Kuma]

I was talking to a T-38 mx guy who used to work for Cessna in Witchita who was on their JPATS bid. The Cessna 526 Citation jet was superior in all ways to the the T-6 which the Navy insisted on the side opening canopy and a turboprop. As mx lay person I don't understand a turbo prop trainer for USAF UPT studs which we only fly C-12's and C-130's in numbers plus not counting what SOCOM has in their inventory. The C526 looks like it would have been a great attack acft with that straight wing, lots of hard points. My friend told me after the competition the USAF told Cessna to destroy the acft. He called the T-6 the Sen Bob Dole gift to Beechcraft Kansas. I don't see the T-6 being around as long as the Tweet just because this acft wasn't built to take the abuse of the T-37.

Here is a link about the C526.

http://cessnawarbirds.com/2009/08/26/cessna-jpats-citationjet/

Prosuper-

I am struggling with words to counter your post. I just don't know where to begin. You are talking to a production line worker in Witchita about an airplane and a program that he has a vested interest in. Of course he thinks that it is a clear cut winner...it is the aircraft that will provide him with money to feed and house his family.

He stated that the "Navy insisted on the side opening canopy and a turboprop". Are you F'ing kidding me? The acquisition process has no place for the navy or the airforce or anyone else to insist on anything like that. The requirements were clear...train x pilots over y time. Do it at the lowest cost possible. Make sure we can use simulators to reduce the number of flight hours required.

Side story about the acquisition process that still makes me smile...the requirement was for Z cubic inches of pubs storage. The typical pilot thought all Z cubic inches would be in one place. The engineers went with 3 different holes that totaled Z cubic inches (just barely). The biggest one just barely fit the IFR supp. What a pain.

The good news is that the T-6 is far superior to the T-37 in every regard and it is cheap to operate. The T-6 does the training with one turboprop engine that out performs the tweet's dual jets like a college athlete out performs a middle school athlete.

Kuma

[BigFreddie]

Prosuper-

I am struggling with words to counter your post. I just don't know where to begin. You are talking to a production line worker in Witchita about an airplane and a program that he has a vested interest in. Of course he thinks that it is a clear cut winner...it is the aircraft that will provide him with money to feed and house his family.

He stated that the "Navy insisted on the side opening canopy and a turboprop". Are you F'ing kidding me? The acquisition process has no place for the navy or the airforce or anyone else to insist on anything like that. The requirements were clear...train x pilots over y time. Do it at the lowest cost possible. Make sure we can use simulators to reduce the number of flight hours required.

Side story about the acquisition process that still makes me smile...the requirement was for Z cubic inches of pubs storage. The typical pilot thought all Z cubic inches would be in one place. The engineers went with 3 different holes that totaled Z cubic inches (just barely). The biggest one just barely fit the IFR supp. What a pain.

The good news is that the T-6 is far superior to the T-37 in every regard and it is cheap to operate. The T-6 does the training with one turboprop engine that out performs the tweet's dual jets like a college athlete out performs a middle school athlete.

Kuma

I've heard the Navy drove the turboprop argument before and not from someone who worked on a production line... Who knows. I have seen the "package" Cessna wanted to offer. And I really doubt the T-6 will survive 50 years of pilot training like the T-37.

I would hate to see the US go through the process of trimming fighter numbers down to a very small level while buying these smaller airplanes that would have limited use in a major conflict against a well equiped enemy.

BF

[Hacker]

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/asd/2011/04/01/02.xml&headline=null&next=10

On the lower end of the fighting spectrum, the Air Force is embarking on a program worth $178 million to buy a squadron of Light Armed Attack Reconnaissance aircraft, similar to ones other countries will buy so it can help those foreign countries build air forces of their own.

In this environment of budget cuts, building the air power of foreign nations may be a tough sell, according to congressional aides.

Air Force leaders nonetheless made the case in response to questions from committee member Rep. Ander Crenshaw (R-Fla.).

The Afghan government, so far the only government to sign on, is scheduled to pick its Light Air Support platform June 9. Delivery would take place early in 2013, giving time to bring the Afghans up to speed by the time the U.S. begins to draw down its presence in Afghanistan.

Creating an air force involves more than just training new pilots, he says. Air traffic controllers, medical procedures and the day-to-day running of an air base also are required. “This is part of building partner capacity, which we think is important, which would not only provide partners but potentially provide access and support the larger national security strategy,” Schwartz says.

[nsplayr]

Where do I sign up? On a side note, I totally forgot this thread existed; as my profile pic indicates I'm 100% being the armed crop duster idea, what a sweet machine.

[kapilot]

Dear DOD/Air Force

Stop trying to reinvent the freaking wheel! There's only one plane for the job..

[Hacker]

While we're at it, bring back the Phantom and Skyraider.