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Leadership at the 'Deid

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I suggest you print out some AF Form 341s and when they confront you, hand them one.

I did that my last deployment. The confused look on their face last long enough for me to walk away.

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Honestly, based on my experience with the Wg/CC over there, the best thing to do would have been to say, "Sounds great. I will wait here until the Wing Commander is finished, explain my situation to him directly, and let him make the decision whether I will be allowed to outprocess."

I can't even say how much I agree with Bergman. You were in the right. You showed up with enough time to meet your tasking. These people were wrong. I'm guessing they would've shit a brick if you had just sat down and waited.

I cannot imagine a wing commander worth a shit that wouldn't be pissed to know there were douchebags like this acting in this manner on his behalf.

Unfuckingbelievable.

BTW, why didn't you just walk right past them and go inside for the brief? You weren't late.

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Like I said, I'm one of the few outspoken Os in my SQ. My commander knows that I do not hesitate to give my opinion and I'm one of the few people who will interrupt staff meeting to speak my mind when I think we're doing something stupid.

Does that mean he's going to do what I say? Obviously not but I can sleep at night because I know that I at least tried. Ultimately I only have direct control of the 118 guys in my flight but I do what I can to make the SQ less gay. Every other O just sits there and goes along with the program...I have no delusions of grandeur but I'll at least protest when I feel like it's warranted.

You must be well liked.

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Whoever said, "if you're not 5 minutes early, you're late," is a fu%king moron!

"2"

...and what exactly does that mean when a General is 1 hour late?...

People need to be at events and ready to start at the "start time", but there are times when honest mistakes happen or things can't be avoided (car won't start for no apparent reason, emergency call from the wife who's in the hospital, got bad information and went to the wrong location, etc). If you are 5 minutes into a 2 hour briefing and some guy quietly wanders in, be a good speaker/lecturer and ignore it. Speak to the individual afterwards. Find out why he's late and THEN consider whether it is worth repeating 5 minutes of "instruction" (most of which is your AF friggin' standard "Why we are here" BS intro). Don't be that D-bag who stops the lecture, stands up and yells, "No! You're late. Get out! Learn to be on time!"). However, perhaps he was just lazy, in which case, isn't it more satisfying to tell him that he just wasted 2 hours at the end of your presentation?

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Like I said, I'm one of the few outspoken Os in my SQ. My commander knows that I do not hesitate to give my opinion and I'm one of the few people who will interrupt staff meeting to speak my mind when I think we're doing something stupid.

Does that mean he's going to do what I say? Obviously not but I can sleep at night because I know that I at least tried. Ultimately I only have direct control of the 118 guys in my flight but I do what I can to make the SQ less gay. Every other O just sits there and goes along with the program...I have no delusions of grandeur but I'll at least protest when I feel like it's warranted.

Done that my entire career...hasn't hurt me yet, but there have been moments where I've wondered. Some people value a person that isn't a yes man.

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If you are 5 minutes into a 2 hour briefing...

I heard that you can use PowerPoint to shorten that kind of speech...

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I'm respected.

I don't care about being liked.

Yikes. Careful. There are entire threads devoted to a few people with this very same attitude who became leaders.

I'm all for you doing the right thing for the right reason but it is hard to tell based on what you write here if you are interrupting a squadron briefing because you are stopping a catastrophe that only you see looming or if you just like to voice your highly respected opinion as the smartest guy in the room. In one case you're a hero. In the other, a clown. Guess which is which.

Believe it or not, there are things a Lt doesn't know and the boss isn't going to tell you, especially in a squadron briefing...even if you are the most respected and intellectually agile person in the room. My advice is to be thoughtful about your interruptions...it avoids the "I was a stupid loudmouth Lt" regret you will feel a few years down the road when you are the boss, are exposed to more important information and have to figure out a way to sanitize and communicate it to the people in your command.

OBTW, I don't know what you fly but I have never seen a Lt in a fighter squadron who as "respected." That's why there is an LPA...so they can try (in a pitiful and futile manner) to protect themselves.

I heard that you can use PowerPoint to shorten that kind of speech...

...or double it, but only if you're really good with PowerPoint.

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Yikes. Careful. There are entire threads devoted to a few people with this very same attitude who became leaders.

I'm all for you doing the right thing for the right reason but it is hard to tell based on what you write here if you are interrupting a squadron briefing because you are stopping a catastrophe that only you see looming or if you just like to voice your highly respected opinion as the smartest guy in the room. In one case you're a hero. In the other, a clown. Guess which is which.

Believe it or not, there are things a Lt doesn't know and the boss isn't going to tell you, especially in a squadron briefing...even if you are the most respected and intellectually agile person in the room. My advice is to be thoughtful about your interruptions...it avoids the "I was a stupid loudmouth Lt" regret you will feel a few years down the road when you are the boss, are exposed to more important information and have to figure out a way to sanitize and communicate it to the people in your command.

OBTW, I don't know what you fly but I have never seen a Lt in a fighter squadron who as "respected." That's why there is an LPA...so they can try (in a pitiful and futile manner) to protect themselves.

No arguments with what you said...I agree completely. I believe I'm respected based on the feedback that I get from my troops and my commander. Their opinions are all that really matter to me.

I'm not a flyer...I'm an LRO. I'm a flight commander for 98 military and 20 civilians.

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I suggest you print out some AF Form 341s and when they confront you, hand them one.

This is a actually a brilliant idea. We can walk around the concentration camp with our shirts untucked, glasses on top of our heads, no socks, and no reflective belts. In no time we'll get Chiefed or Desert-Douched. When we are we congratulate the dumbass and give him/her a merit. Lather, rinse, repeat. The shoes will get extremely excited about this and run off to show their precious 341s to the other desk jockeys and/or "leader"ship. In a perfect world the merits would get lots of attention (chain of command atta-boys, Desert Eagle articles, etc.) until someone finally figures out it is a joke and the whole herd is humiliated. This should buy us at least a week or two of flagrant D&A violations and plenty of entertainment along the way.

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That's my understanding, too.

edit:

######it, I'm saying it......

You officers need to beat this shit down with a bat. I understand not all of you have leadership/management that has your back... but every time you just walk away from an O vs. E confrontation because "the boss will jump in my ass for jumping in the ass of the A1C who blatantly disrespected me in public", you are telling every enlisted person within earshot that they can continue to get away with disrespecting (and even disobeying) a commissioned officer. That is piss-poor leadership, and you don't need to wear your rank on your collar to be able to figure that out.

This shit has to end...

I agree, and have done so multiple times. We had a SSgt disrespect my Co for wearing his sunglasses on his head two days before this. The Co was "wrong" but the SSgt's tone was what I pulled him aside for. This time I was right and had 2 people in my face saying I wasn't, and something in me just snapped. That's bad officership on my part for sure, which I knew, which made me even more angry. The fact that another Capt was there, probably her direct boss smirking at me made me think about how I couldn't possibly win this one.

I never thought about waiting for the Wing/CC because, lets face it, this place has been run on fear of the Wing/CC and his cronies for the most part of 9 years now. Maybe that's changed but I never got the memo. Besides, if it didn't work out in my favor, and my Sq/CC got an e-mail from the Boss... Sq/CC-> :bohica:<-ME

Not worth it for a stupid briefing. Maybe I'm just chicken$7it.

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BTW, why didn't you just walk right past them and go inside for the brief? You weren't late.

If I remember correctly, the little Shoe Douches have an ID scanner or a sheet where they write your social in order to enter it into some computer system that tracks whether or not you attended this meeting. More than likely, they were not going to process his ID and he would not have gotten "credit" for attending the dumness of Right Finish. If you haven't attended Right Finish by the day you are stepping to the jet to get the hell out of clownland, there could be trouble.

I hate to say it, but this is what things have come to, and we are left with little choice but to play along and make it home.

I would have had that A1C locked up and at attention so fast his head would have been spinning. And those that know me can attest that I am generally a pretty easy-going guy.

We, as officers, absolutely must step up to this shit. It has to end.

Agreed - know your rights and your powers. I believe it was someone on this board who pointed me to this AFI on protocol. The following section puts in writing what us officers should be enforcing every time a Shoe E (or junior ranking O) tries to enforce some form of nitpicking queep:

"8.2.2. Juniors shall stand at attention (unless seated at mess or unless circumstances make such action impracticable or inappropriate) as follows:

8.2.2.1. When addressed by an officer senior to them."

Last time I was there, I took the 3 minutes out of my day to print that page out and carried it in my little ID pouch, along with the page on the local Dress and Appearance reg that stated that anyone E-5 and above can ask anyone for their ID in the interest of maintaining good order and discipline. You should have seen the look on the Chief's face when he got interrupted by my loadmaster while "Chiefing" someone. The loadmaster asked to see his ID, and the Chief was incredulous. He wanted to know why someone (junior to him, nevertheless) was asking for his ID.

My take - if you are authorized to hassle someone by asking for their ID, why not take advantage of it and make life for the Shoes a little more difficult while they are making life difficult for others?

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We had a SSgt disrespect my Co for wearing his sunglasses on his head two days before this. The Co was "wrong" but the SSgt's tone was what I pulled him aside for.

In my experience, most of the time the shoes are respectful and just trying to enforce the queepy rules that the failed leaders dreamed up. I was once told "sir, can you please take your sunglasses off your head?" What else can you say or do? Now, if they are disrespectful or lack customs and courtesies, that's where I have my layered strategy:

1. "As an officer [identify myself as an O] also interested in good order and discipline, I must ask...where is that written?" If they produce a paper copy or quote the Dress and Appearance Reg...

2. "OK [if I have to comply with the letter, and not the spirit, of every little rule], then why are you not complying with section 8.2.2 of AFI 34-1201?"

3. "Since you can't comply with simple, written AFI's, let me have your ID in accordance with the local 36-2903, and your commanders namer. We have to enforce standards here, and respect for senior officers comes before enforcing sunglasses and reflective belts."

Probably not going to really work, but worth a try.

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Maybe I'm just chicken$7it.

Not at all. You've got to pick your battles and you need to maintain your self-preservation instinct.

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If I remember correctly, the little Shoe Douches have an ID scanner or a sheet where they write your social in order to enter it into some computer system that tracks whether or not you attended this meeting. More than likely, they were not going to process his ID and he would not have gotten "credit" for attending the dumness of Right Finish. If you haven't attended Right Finish by the day you are stepping to the jet to get the hell out of clownland, there could be trouble.

I hate to say it, but this is what things have come to, and we are left with little choice but to play along and make it home.

My understanding is that they scan those things at the end of the briefings...do you really think they'd remember who you were after scanning 200+ other IDs?

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I just chuckled at the satisfaction it would bring me if i started carrying pepper spray to the deid and when approached, just sprayed the aggressor, and than carried about on my way to the caddilac. . .

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I just chuckled at the satisfaction it would bring me if i started carrying pepper spray to the deid and when approached, just sprayed the aggressor, and than carried about on my way to the caddilac. . .

Why not just carry a taser and watch them flail around in the rocks?

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Why not just carry a taser and watch them flail around in the rocks?

I'd pay money to be a first-hand witness to that....

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I just chuckled at the satisfaction it would bring me if i started carrying pepper spray to the deid and when approached, just sprayed the aggressor, and than carried about on my way to the caddilac. . .

It may solve some problems but it will probably create others.

I heard that you can use PowerPoint to shorten that kind of speech...

When have you ever known PowerPoint slides to make a presentation shorter?

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When have you ever known PowerPoint slides to make a presentation shorter?

thats_the_joke.jpg

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thats_the_joke.jpg

Gee thanks. I thought we were still making fun of BQ's "how to make an effective power point presentation". You got me good, fucker.

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Gee thanks. I thought we were still making fun of BQ's "how to make an effective power point presentation". You got me good, fucker.

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

FWIW, I had to stop by the visitor center because I forgot my ID. I parked in a lot COMPLETELY covered by snow and my car is the ONLY one in the lot. As I get out of my car a civilian Target-security-guard-washout at the front gate steps out from his "cozy" shack in Minot's glorious -47 windchill (no joke), hastily walks across a lane of inbound traffic, and yells in front of everyone waiting, "Hey you idiot! Why don't you park like you're supposed to!" Please understand there are NO visible lines indicating traffic flow or paking spaces.

I walked over and just asked to see his badge and quietly walked away. "Why? What are you gonna do?"

I walked away and said over my shoulder, "Wouldn't you like to know".

I just reported him to his supervisor, but he seemed awfully panicked as I walked away. I took quite a bit of solace in that shoeclerk's panicky voice.

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I won't use names here, but the relatively new OG commander here at Bagram with the 455th is rapidly taking over the number one spot on the "Most Likely to be Shot by His Own People" list. At the very least, he has alienated the entire C-130 community here by deriding our maintenance, calling us lazy, disrespectful, unprofessional pilots, claiming that he could fix our scheduling issues in 2 hours, and calling at least five members to meet with him about "blatant disregard for rules" (Their shirts were untucked while walking to the overflowing porta-johns). Another story involving his wrath was told to me by a FAST guy we had today. I had to sit down when he was telling me the story. Here goes: Airman so-n-so lives in the same dorm complex as Col. L___. As the airman is using the facility, he notices that his hand has broke through the one-ply toilet paper, resulting in fecal matter being on his hand. When he completes his ass wiping, he proceeds out of the stall with shirt untucked, so as to prevent fecal matter from getting on his shirt. Col L just happened to be in the can at the same time and spots the airman with his shirt untucked, washing his hands. The colonel proceeds to chew the kid's ass, asking him why he would choose to break the rules and demonstrate irresponsibility and a lack of integrity. In the end, the colonel ordered the airman to meet with his boss, the MSG commander, about his shirt being untucked. I asked the airman if he honestly has to take time out of a mission support group commander's day to discuss a t-shirt being untucked, in a latrine, while the kid is washing his hands; all the airman did was nod. I am still in disbelief.

Obviously, we have all had some incredibly horrible bosses, but I think this guy might be the worst that I have seen in 11 years. He, along with his two XO's (yes, he has two executive officers), have been on a nightly rampage for the past week, busting people for everything from no disco belt, to shirts untucked, to shoes not tied, to strings hanging out of pt shorts, to smoking in unauthorized spots, to shirts that are visibly wet from sweat that has acquired during workouts. B-hut row is now known as "Tin Pan Alley." LOR's are being threatened for uniform violations. In what is, perhaps, the biggest sign that this slug has completely lost sight of what his job is here at Bagram: a flying line has been lost so that he can have a meeting with two crewmembers regarding their shirts being untucked while conversing outside their B-hut. This man's personal quest to ensure that everyone is following rules of dress and appearance is adversely affecting flying operations. I've began wondering if that is suitable material for filing an IG complaint.

I almost forgot another funny story: We had a guy meet with the wise colonel about an illegal (Hawaiian) shirt that was being worn in one of the common areas in Tin Pan Alley. The colonel, in his grand wisdom, asked "So, when you were wearing the illegal shirt, was it tucked in?"

Please let me know if you know this colonel that I am talking about. I would love to know where he completely derailed... :flipoff:

Thread revival--guess who the new wing king at Hill AFB is?

Have to admit now though, I was at Bagram at the time this was written and didn't see or hear about any of the above behavior (and since he was flying with my squadron, I saw him alot).

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