The Foglesong Thread
Posted 31 July 2008 - 12:58 AM
Posted 31 July 2008 - 06:49 AM
Shame he is from WV....not a bad state really.
Agreed, have done several motorcycle trips through there and found the residents to be friendly and the scenery to be beautiful! At least they were smart enough to get rid of the old fart! Notice he didn't go back there after the Air Force, despite his use of 'Mingo'...
Posted 31 July 2008 - 02:40 PM
I'll save the stories of his stupidity, but suffice it to say that if I ever say his name outloud, I spit on the ground.
If I had known he was at MSU, when I drove by there a year ago I would have gone into his office and punched him in the throat.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 12:13 AM
Posted 01 August 2008 - 12:47 AM
I was an officer who served under Doc Foglesong at Columbus AFB when he was there in 1993. Doc Foglesong IS an idiot. For the short time he was there, he nearly ruined Columbus AFB. He made a lot of great people retire. They weren’t going to put up with his crap. For example, Dr. Mary Alexander at MSU was one of the ones who called it quits as a Lt Col when she was Doc’s executive officer at Columbus in the 1990’s. She was chosen as the Executive Officer under the previous commander…a great man…a great leader…whom I respect and took up for when Doc talked bad about him…(ret) Colonel Nick P. Ardillo, Jr. Doc didn’t like me taking-up for Colonel Ardillo. I found it amazing that Mary survived him at MSU.
Doc almost ran off the long-time “senior” Wing Commander’s secretary…”Ms Thelgy”. I remember her telling me about Doc “it’s not a matter of how long the storm will last, but how much damage it will do along the way”. She was referring to Doc’s time at Columbus AFB, and all the damage he was doing. We all knew he was short-lived, only “filling a square” under Gen McPeak, another idiot who ruined the Air Force while he was Chef of Staff. I recall Doc was at Columbus for about 9 months, a very short tour for any commander.
Doc would call meetings on Sunday, yes Sunday, and have his commander’s wait in his waiting area for over an hour. He would come out of the office about every 20 minutes and just look over there and say “now, what was our meeting all about?, oh yeah, that’s right, I’ll be with you in a minute”. When we finally got in to see him, he took 30 SECONDS to say what he wanted to say and dismissed us. What a moron.
He would call commander’s at 4am to tell them they had an unauthorized tobacco “butt can” in front of their building and they need to remove it NOW. He also did the same for a single light being left on in an aircraft hanger. All times of the night, he rode around the base making calls to people. So it didn’t surprise me when I read about all the stupid things he did at MSU.
Doc would befriend the resource commander (known as “FM”—financial management) on base because this was the person who controlled ALL the money. Doc would have funds switched from one account over to another; whatever Doc wanted, DOC got. He would call the resource commander at 5am and talk to him about ideas he had for money. What an idiot.
Doc had his secretary call me up, and she would say “Colonel Foglesong wants you to meet him outside, he will come by and pick you up in his staff car”. I would stand outside in the 100-degree humid heat and he would drive around the base within 150 yards of me, see me, but not picking me up. This was his way of controlling people. About 30 minutes later, after I was drenched in sweat, he would pick me up and try to convince me to back him up on a crazy idea of moving some money around “for one of his projects”. Until I said, “yes, ok, fine, I agree, I’ll back you up”, I wasn’t getting out of his staff car. He would ride around in circles on the airfield until I agreed with his crazy idea. I argued as long as I could and yes, I gave good justification, but he wouldn’t listen. Doc’s a nut.
Doc would “hangout” with the lowest ranking Airmen, to “snoop around” and find out what was happening in a squadron. He befriended them so much that it was difficult to get those Airmen to do anything, since “they had Doc on their side”. This was against good military law and order. For years after he made general, he did this same thing; after-hours, he would jog around a (visited) base and stop by the dorms or a work place to talk to the Airmen, Doc’s way of micro-managing any commander he could. I am sure that he would interact with the MSU students, just like he did the Airmen. Like the Airman, I’m sure they liked it. Doc probably had an open-door policy with a few students who gave him advice. I could’ve told you that he wasn’t going to interact with the MSU faculty or staff, because he doesn’t want to hear the truth or ANY others ideas from his colleagues.
Doc Foglesong never listened to his commanders, unless it was the two that he brought onto the base. He normally had two or three “followers” with him, when he arrived. Without them, he had no cheerleaders. As one of his Captain executive officer’s once told me, “as high ranking as he is, surprisingly, he has little self-confidence”. The executive officer went on to say, Doc was “too young to lead, and too arrogant to listen to his best people”. Good leaders surround themselves with good people, and listen to their people. Being a fighter pilot is not an excuse for his demeanor. He is in a league, all his own.
At Columbus, I had a co-worker who got a bland rating on his promotion recommendation form (PRF), and Foglesong would not talk to him about it. The Captain got a “Promote” instead of a Definitely Promote”. Doc was REQUIRED to explain (give feedback) why he was rated the way he was, or at least talk to him, explain or answer his questions or concerns, but Doc kept canceling the appointment with the Captain, and finally left the word with the Captain’s boss that “I don’t want to talk to him, and tell him to Stop calling my office!” The Captain's outstanding record promoted the Captain to Major.
In Doc’s replies concerning the MSU complaints about him, I noticed that he didn’t even address the actual complaints. Doc loves to avoid the truth. Instead, he danced around with some weird quotes that he probably copied off the Internet.
At the Change of Command ceremony, when Doc was leaving Columbus. He never once addressed the hundreds of troops standing in a parade on the hot and humid flight line. Instead, he turned his back on them and addressed the Columbus mayor and DV’s on the stand behind the podium…how sad. He never mentioned all of the accomplishments of the troops or thanked them. Every “good” commander addresses the troops when he departs. When his wife Mary kissed him, he acted like a Hollywood actor by wiping off his face as though he had a pile of slobber on it. In front of hundreds, Doc disrespected Mary.
After he left Columbus AFB Mississippi, Doc went on to ruin Osan AB South Korea. For the first time, he made a curfew for being off base. In disbelief, the merchants and people of the local community protested. He was good at making a mountain out of a molehill. In order to get his way, he would exaggerate a problem. He built gun revetments all over the place at Osan, making it look like a war zone. Never before, had I seen a place be built up so fast. Yet, nothing militarily or socially had changed. It was all in his head. It was Doc trying to make himself look like a Combat hero.
Combat Time? At Columbus, Doc would give speeches and talks about combat time, like he had hours of combat experience. He would say “in combat, you must…….”. In his speeches, he led us to believe he had combat time. So in 1993, we went to his official flight records folder in the OSS and saw NO COMBAT time. No combat time in the F-16, and actually and for someone of his rank, his flying hours in the F-16 were really low. He was a staffer, and a square-filler. If he retired with combat time, it was far after he had pinned on Brigadier General. And Doc was not seen as one to put his life on the line for anyone. Doc was all about himself.
Copy-cat. On Doc’s website http://www.alefwv.com/founder.htm, (The Appalachian Leadership and Education Foundation (ALEF)) Doc directly plagiarizes a quote from the USAF…Our promise to ourselves and to our Fellows is to commit to “integrity, service before self and excellence in all we do”. The last part is directly from the USAF posters, official documents, and advertisement. Doesn’t an educator know about the consequences of plagiarism?
You, Doc Foglesong, have ruined a lot of lives. Your way--or the highway, well hit the highway. Yes, go back to West Virginia, go put your big head in a coalmine, and don’t come out. You’re no leader, you’re a dictator. You’re an IDIOT.
Edited by Tracy, 04 August 2008 - 12:12 AM.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:24 AM
You guys are awesome.
Foglesong attained the rank of four-star general (which was plagued with controversy) in the United States Air Force, retiring from active duty after 33 years of service.
Attained 5th-level Duche-Mange with Firerod's and Dragon's Breath Staff COMPLETELY on his own.
Praise! He is loved
<<snip out news article from MSU detailing what an idiot he was as president>>
He is Praised!
"We did a search for ol' Doc's combat hours...our newest A1C load had more combat time...meaning any time"
He is Praised!
I wonder if the students at MSU will be as happy to see him go as all the folks in USAFE were. It sounds like Combat University didn't work out to well.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 06:37 AM
Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:33 PM
Let me expand on one of his "Combat" programs.
Most of Doc's combat programs were confined to Ramstein (poor, poor M2 and Linda). One of the programs that had MAJCOM reach was Combat Nighthawk. This 'pilot' (yes I use that term loosely) thought it would be a good idea to educate to general USAF populace about the the USAF role. Good in theory - right? Yeah man, send them to the ops squadrons, RAPCON, and MX to see how me do things?
Doc Douche-pump decided that it was critical to our mission to educate people on how things like the chow hall, hospital, and enlisted dorms worked. No shit. Even worse was the fact that (as the name suggested) it carried into the wee hours of the night and therefore killed aircrew's crew rest. It started at 1900 with 2 officers and 2 NCOs who would walk around the base and visit facilities like the chow hall, airman's dorms, SFS, and hospital. The schedule ended at 0000 and it didn't matter if you had been at work since 0600.
When I got tagged for this pleasure - as the SRO - I shitcanned the schedule and took my three visitors (Lt, MSgt, and SrA) to the tower (night flying), RAPCON, and flying squadrons to show them how the real AF operates. All of them learned more about the operational USAF in those three hours than Doc cock-gobbler could have ever imparted in any faggity AFN commercial.
When Doc dies, M2 and I are going to dig him up, burn his body in effigy ("###### that I say we burn him right here!") and kick the ashes into a cesspool.
I was lucky enough to get to Ramstein after Doc's time but the stink was definitely still there in the form of his combat programs. Combat Nighthawk was part of my inprocessing and was a total waste. I can't imagine how folks got by when Doc was running the show out here.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 04:39 PM
Posted 01 August 2008 - 11:12 PM
Please, please, tell us more. That is quite possibly the best post I've read in the last 5 years on Baseops.
Flight engineer's primary job is to make sure the pilots do everything on the check list.
Posted 04 August 2008 - 12:20 AM
Don't you worry, I will be back with many other TRUTHS about Doc.
Doc will certainly recognize my name, because that is my real "nick" name.
Right Doc? I know you are Googling yourself!! And reading this...here's to you pal!!!!
I'll be back...
Posted 05 August 2008 - 06:28 PM
Posted 05 August 2008 - 07:37 PM
The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain. Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".
How he got to USAFE/CC is beyond me, but we can thank the Peter Principle for not allowing our fears of Doc as Chief of Staff to come true.
Posted 06 August 2008 - 08:46 PM
MAJOR AWARDS AND DECORATIONS
Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Distinguished Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal
Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster
Meritorious Service Medal with three oak leaf clusters
Aerial Achievement Medal with two oak leaf clusters
Air Force Commendation Medal with two oak leaf clusters
Air Force Achievement Medal
Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal
Korean National Security Medal (Samil)
Korean National Security Medal (Cheon-Su)
Medalla De Oro por Servicio Distinguido, El Salvador (Gold Medal for Distinguished Service)
Mérito Aeronáutico, Uruguay (Aeronautical Merit)
Mérito Aeronáutico, Bolivia
Cruz de la Fuerza Aérea, Colombia (Air Force Cross, Great Cross category)
Cruz de las Fuerzas Armadas, Honduras (Armed Forces Cross)
Cruz de la Fuerza Aérea, Guatemala
Cruz Peruana al Mérito Aeronáutico, clase Gran Cruz, Perú (Peruvian Cross of Aeronautical Merit, Great Cross category)
La Medalla Legion al Mérito Confraternidad Aérea Interamericana (Legion of Merit, System of Cooperation Among the American Air Forces, SICOFAA)
Others have mentioned his nearly complete lack of flying medals.
He also has absolutely no unit awards; way to take care of your people! If he does have them, then he doesn't care enough to wear them.
Most, telling, you'll note the bottom 8 awards are from Latin American militaries. This makes up more than 40% of his rack, and there's a story behind them. They stem from his 1 year tour as 12AF/CC, which is dual hatted as AFSOUTH. I'm friends with the poor SOB who was his Exec (and survived the nearly the entire time he was there). It turns out Doc didn't even bother to visit these countries. Towards the end of his tour he had his Exec contact these country's Air Forces and 'persuaded' them to give him an award! They were sent in the mail.
Furthermore, when Doc arrived at DM my friend was the Exec for another general. Doc found out he was good officer with an up-and-coming career, so he took him for himself. He had orders to attend ACSC in-residence, which Doc turned off. At the end of Doc's tour, he forgot about taking care of his Exec, who thanks to Doc's perpetual abuse didn't finish ACSC in time. Had Doc not anally raped his career, he'd be at least a Colonel today. Instead he's retiring as a Major.
This man made an absolute mockery of Integrity, Service, and Excellence. His values were/are Immoral, Selfishness, and Douchbaggery.
Posted 08 August 2008 - 12:41 AM
Copy Mexican General.
Most, telling, you'll note the bottom 8 awards are from Latin American militaries.
Will somebody please update Wikipedia?
Posted 08 August 2008 - 12:48 AM
Copy Mexican General.
Will somebody please update Wikipedia?
If I see that picture on Wikipedia, I will probably crap myself!!
I will send a bottle of Soju to anyone that does it!
If you do not know what Soju is I recommend you keep it that way.
Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:22 AM
Tracy, I feel your pain. I was at ETAR for too long while that guy was there. Eventually, I was his C-21 "bitch" pilot (Linda knows my pain). Too many stories to tell...
- unfortunately have over 100 hours as the "A" code w/ that nut.
1.) He cannot sing Lynard Skynard - even after 2 beers at Lakenheath post Excaliber exercise.
2.) He stands on a box next to Coleman...yep, seen it, flew it.
3.) Helped Q-3 a guy for not having the C-21 de-iced prior to takeoff....mind be it it was a blizzard.
4.) A buddy of mine who played at MSU saw him trip a break his leg while running....instantly went nuts on safety related things at MSU and tried to bring in the AF color scheme.
5.) Was original backer of the Ramstein hotel complex debacle
6.) Planted $3M, (yes million) worth of shrubery for the presidents arrival - yet, GW never left the tarmac (this is when the CDC and SFS folks were gasping for money)
7.) Mary Foglesong has an "in" with Rumsfeld (i.e., they are related by marriage). Doc talks alot after 2 beers (see #1)
8.) Nearly got shot at in Uganda trying to cross a restricted zone.
9.) Made folks rake leaves in the Ramstein forest....yes, folks, a forest!!!
Also, for the record....he DOES have Combat time. He flew on the NATO AWACS down to Pristina (Kosovo) during a NATO exercise...logged around 4 hours for the sortie. As well, let that piss you off!!!
Edited by C-21 Pilot, 08 August 2008 - 01:38 AM.
Posted 08 August 2008 - 01:24 AM
Had Doc not anally raped his career, he'd be at least a Colonel today. Instead he's retiring as a Major.
Each post has pissed me off a little more but this one was my limit. Man that dude deserves a serious throttling. I wish one of the senior generals when he was making his way up the ranks had stomped him back down to where he belonged. After reading all of the posts (and even if only half of what has been written is true - not implying anybody lied or exaggerated) ole Doc made it several steps above where the peter principle said he should have ended up. What a jerk off!!!
Posted 08 August 2008 - 02:16 AM
Yes, I certainly want him to recognize my name.
He did everything he could to NOT promote me when I was the #1 DP chosen from the OG. When I got my “P”, the OG was royally pissed; he slammed his fist on the table and pointed his finger toward the Wing Headquarters Bldg. Doc’s Executive Officer and the OG/CC told me the entire story. The OG told me the story while Doc was still there, and the Exec told me after Doc left. Doc was good about changing DP's around, just to let the Group CC's know who was in-charge. He did it just to intimidate them. He’d give the most unheard of person a DP. Well, I got promoted anyway. A lot of really good people didn’t get promoted. He promoted one (unsuspecting) guy to Colonel, and he retired without pinning it on. When he got the DP, we all said “SAY WHAT?! We think Doc did it just to piss off all the other eligibles.
After Doc left as Wing CC, I worked in the Wing Staff office and was able to gain access to many-many files left behind by Doc, a huge trail of notes left by the former Exec…three draws full of them and all the other files in the office areas. Notes from Group CC’s to/from Doc. Lots of Post It Notes and memos on folders and PRFs. Man, it was like I had Doc’s personal files in front of me. What a gold mine. A lot of people got screwed. A friend/neighbor of mine at the hospital was not promoted to Lt Col and had to get out with 17 years. And if I could locate him, I would (now) tell him the real reason why. It was SHOCKING and SAD to read all the notes. Most people kept the notes to cover themselves, i.e. an IG Investigation.
Like I said before, I was stationed with Doc when he was a Colonel. Then about 8-10 years later when he was a three-button, I was stationed at another base when Doc planned an overnight trip there. At that time, he was the AF/CC at DM. At the Wing Staff meeting, the Wing CC asked if anyone knew Lt Gen Foglesong, and I raised my hand. (The Wing CC already knew about my events with Doc). And he said, “Tracy, you need to be out on the DV mat to greet him when he arrives”. Man, I couldn’t wait. I wanted this bastard to see that I was still in the AF and not under HIS control. I wanted so bad to look him in the eye and shake his hand as hard as I could and grin “see, I’m still here”.
So when Doc arrived, Doc went thru the line-up shaking hands down the line and he cut a slight eye at me and STOPPED at the Colonel standing next to me, turned and walked away. There were about four MORE people in the line; and he blew all the others off because of me. He wasn’t about to cross my path in-line. He wasn’t brave enough for that. The bastard knew he had done me wrong and wasn’t about to look me in the eye. I was the one at his former base who would fight him on issues when he was a Colonel, and I was still in uniform. When Doc stopped shaking hands, ALL the Colonels turned 90 degrees and looked at me with that deer-in-the-headlights-look…huuuhhhh. After Doc left, they said “man, you’re right, he sure doesn’t like you…he IS a jerk.” While waiting in front of Base Ops, I had already explained to them all what an ass he is; now Doc proved my point to them. Way to go Doc! The stock in all my stories about you went WAY UP. Now they all know. What a whimp, he couldn’t even face me.
Just like he couldn’t face the students or faculty at MSU. He blocked their ability to reply to emails after he sent RUDE emails to many of them at MSU.
I’ve never seen a man reach such a rank, while being such a coward. He was promoted only because of McPeak…who is just like Doc.
More later, stay tuned,
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