?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Jaded]

I will have around 370 days left on my ADSC at the end of my current overseas assignment. Is there any reg or policy that would prevent the air force from sending me on a 365 after my assignment is up if I choose to separate at the end of my ADSC? IE, is the military required to give you a certain amount of time to job search or use leave or something?

[TreeA10]

While you are considering benefits, for those of you that entered active duty in Texas and served on active duty after 9/11, i.e. Lackland, etc., you may be eligible for benefits under the Hazlewood Act ( http://www.tvc.texas.gov/Hazlewood-Act.aspx ) passed by the State of Texas. It is 150 hours worth of tuition at a state University and can be transferred to your kids.

[guineapigfury]

A little off topic, but here goes:

Does anyone know if Big Blue can hold me until the end of my ADSC if they pass me over twice for major? I think I've got about a 0.69% chance of getting promoted and want/need to start planning now. My ADSC runs until late 2018 and my 2nd look at Major would be in 2015 (unless they shift that board to the right 9 months too). I called AFPC and they could not give me a 100% answer.

[Chida]

I will have around 370 days left on my ADSC at the end of my current overseas assignment. Is there any reg or policy that would prevent the air force from sending me on a 365 after my assignment is up if I choose to separate at the end of my ADSC? IE, is the military required to give you a certain amount of time to job search or use leave or something?

You're protected by a DAV code for 30 days after you PCS to a new assignment. The DAV code can be easily waived though. You're "protected" from doing a PCS during the first year after you arrived at a new duty station. I don't know if AFPC is still classifying 365's as a PCS. I'd suggest looking at the Assignments AFI. Until you get a DOS you're fair game for anything within these limits. My opinion is that once you get a DOS, you're probably not going on a 365. You could get a 6 month deployment, though. Don't let fear stop you from doing what you need to do. Your sq commander is the authority to grant/deny terminal leave/terminal PTDY. When I separated, local policy allowed for a max of 120 days terminal leave/PTDY.

A little off topic, but here goes:

Does anyone know if Big Blue can hold me until the end of my ADSC if they pass me over twice for major? I think I've got about a 0.69% chance of getting promoted and want/need to start planning now. My ADSC runs until late 2018 and my 2nd look at Major would be in 2015 (unless they shift that board to the right 9 months too). I called AFPC and they could not give me a 100% answer.

ADSC doesn't matter if you're twice passed over and get non-continuation or decline continuation. The reason is Title 10 says 2x passed over guys must be separated, and a lesser instruction (AFI) dictates the ADSC. Title 10 trumps AFI.

[Shut up 'n color]

Trying to get some updated information along the flying side of ADSCs. Situation: C17 to T6 to C17 (AC Requal). I think I am understanding that the Requal will not extend me past my 10, however, down the road, when I do go to IP School according to 36-2107 I will get a 2 year ADSC, which can extend past the UPT commitment, correct? There is bound to be someone on here that has gone through this. Does IP school at Altus, extend you past UPT? If so, this could cause me to show my cards about 1 year earlier than desired, thus burning multiple bridges.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Shut up 'n color

[scudrunner12]

Yes IPUG will add 2 yrs from your date of completion.

[pcola]

Trying to get some updated information along the flying side of ADSCs. Situation: C17 to T6 to C17 (AC Requal). I think I am understanding that the Requal will not extend me past my 10, however, down the road, when I do go to IP School according to 36-2107 I will get a 2 year ADSC, which can extend past the UPT commitment, correct? There is bound to be someone on here that has gone through this. Does IP school at Altus, extend you past UPT? If so, this could cause me to show my cards about 1 year earlier than desired, thus burning multiple bridges.

Yes IPUG will add 2 yrs from your date of completion.

Negative.

Refer to AFI 36-2107 page 9, note 1b. MPS will try to get you to sign the ADSC paperwork. Don't do it, refer them to the AFI I just referenced.

[scudrunner12]

Thanks PCola. Our Group Execs mislead me then... always better to just know the regs. We had several O-5 R.O.A.D. types that were persuaded out of upgrade in order to not push an ADSC passed 20yrs. Hmmm

the mission was significantly less awesome than briefed

Edited September 1, 2013 by scudrunner12

[Homestar]

I don't know what a R.O.A.D. type is, but that note specifically refers to a situation where you may attend IP upgrade at year 9 of the UPT ADSC and not have to serve any commitment past year 10 of the UPT ADSC. Once you're past year 10, normal ADSC rules apply which may push you past 20 if applicable.

[Tonka]

Retired On Active Duty

[Spinner]

I don't know what a R.O.A.D. type is, but that note specifically refers to a situation where you may attend IP upgrade at year 9 of the UPT ADSC and not have to serve any commitment past year 10 of the UPT ADSC. Once you're past year 10, normal ADSC rules apply which may push you past 20 if applicable.

R - Retired

O - On

A - Active

D - Duty

[scudrunner12]

I don't know what a R.O.A.D. type is, but that note specifically refers to a situation where you may attend IP upgrade at year 9 of the UPT ADSC and not have to serve any commitment past year 10 of the UPT ADSC. Once you're past year 10, normal ADSC rules apply which may push you past 20 if applicable.

Ahhh. Thanks for the further insight.

[Jaded]

Here's the note:

"b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs."

What is "AFT"? Is that IQT in a new airframe, like cross training from the F-16 to F-35?

Edit: Found it. "Advanced Flying Training (AFT): courses in the following categories:

- Initial qualification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system)

- Requalification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system)

- AETC Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) (NOTE: Pilots who cross-train without a break in flying between AETC non-Major Weapons System aircraft, after completing initial training do not incur any additional commitment.)

- Test Pilot School (for Pilots, Navigators, and Engineers)

- All Career Enlisted Aviators and Non-rated Enlisted Aircrew members attending Advanced Flying Training"

[Notch]

WIC also applies since it is advanced flying training.

[disgruntledemployee]

Yes, the AFI states that, but I have seen AMC pull IP school slots (delete the person from the slot) for not signing the 2-yr ADSC, even after acknowledging the AFI as correct. That was a few years ago and things may have changed. If you work it at the MPF level and show them the reg, it should work out in your favor. Report back what happens, I'm interested to see if things have changed.

Out

[Smokin]

.... Once you're past year 10, normal ADSC rules apply which may push you past 20 if applicable.

Has anyone pushed to test on this? "..will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service." This sentence is poorly written and seems ambiguous to me. I infer 'extend' to mean that it has to be continuous with your previous 10 year commitment, as in if you're at 8 years and get a TX, your commitment is still only 10 years not 11. But, I could also see it interpreted as anything past 10 years is an extension of your ADSC. As in, if you're at 15 years and you get a TX, you're only required ADSC is for the PCS with the TX.

[Swizzle]

For reference, Ramstein MPF, circa 2012, doesn't know this and after seeing it insisted I sign an ADSC anyways for attending IP school. I didn't fight back and signed b/c big picture it didn't matter with a 10 year ADSC further out than the IP school ADSC.

Pick your battles wisely...YMMV depending upon ops' culture in the moment

[JeepGuyC17]

If you show your cards by refusing to sign the ADSC for IP school, your CC might decide it would make more sense to send someone else who is more likely to stay in instead.

[pcola]

If you show your cards by refusing to sign the ADSC for IP school, your CC might decide it would make more sense to send someone else who is more likely to stay in instead.

In my case, CC never knew. I called the MPF, referred them to the reg, and they concurred and apologized for the mistake. The form went away and nobody asked again.

[Homestar]

Has anyone pushed to test on this? "..will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service." This sentence is poorly written and seems ambiguous to me. I infer 'extend' to mean that it has to be continuous with your previous 10 year commitment, as in if you're at 8 years and get a TX, your commitment is still only 10 years not 11. But, I could also see it interpreted as anything past 10 years is an extension of your ADSC. As in, if you're at 15 years and you get a TX, you're only required ADSC is for the PCS with the TX.

Not sure about TX (if by that you mean you were once an F-16 pilot then flew T-6s then have to get a new Init Qual in the F-16) but crossflow (Phoenix, G-V, 89th, etc) are separate from the exclusion found in the note. Further on in the note it says:

c. Rated officers who crossflow/retrain into another rated career field (e.g., an air battle manager who

crossflows/retrains as a navigator or manned or unmanned pilot), crossflow/retrain to a different weapons

system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe will incur the full ADSC for that training even if that

ADSC extends beyond the officer’s 6th or 10th year of rated service

I bet the TX course would be considered Init or Re qual and if accomplished in year 8 of your UPT ADSC you should not have to go past 10 years.

I'd love to see the look on the face of the Amn when the question is asked.

[Jaded]

Well, that's confusing. Those two statements seem contradictory.

[guineapigfury]

In my case, CC never knew. I called the MPF, referred them to the reg, and they concurred and apologized for the mistake. The form went away and nobody asked again.

Well played.

[HercDude]

I have seen this done several times, and am in the process right now (less than 18 mo. ADSC left, and I refuse to sign a 2 yr. ADSC). It was held up for a few days, but I have informed the UTM, CC, and Base Training Manager of the reg, and all have concurred that I do not have to sign. I don't have orders yet though.......

[HercDude]

To follow up:

I got an email from the base training manager which included correspondence from AFPC/DPSOTES (the staff weenies who manage ADSCs I think). If you fit the criteria of AFI 36-2107 Table 1.1, note 1.b then you DO NOT have to sign an ADSC, and there is no waiver required. I simply made a note of the applicable reg on the training RIP, signed it, and sent it back to the UTM. Feel free to PM me with questions.

[ViperStud]

Posted this question earlier and it was deleted - guess I should have found a home for it. Anyway, if you separate and join the ANG/Res, can you then transfer post-911 GI benefits to the Frau/kids and serve out the ADSC in the Guard/Res? Don't want to sign an ADSC to transfer it now if I may separate in the near future, but have no problems committing to the ANG/Res once out of AD. Anyone been in this situation?