C-17 Globemaster Q&A

[Fuzz]

According to AFPC, we are overmanned. Most first tour guys at the big bases these days are min turning the C-17 (2.5-3 years). A quick upgrade to AC and off to a UAV or MC-12, never to return. The other option is back to flying T-6s. That could change in a couple years, but it's the current reality. I can't speak for the the PACAF crowd. The mission makes it worth the risk, it's a great jet. I'd still roll the dice and go for a C-17.

Does being AD qual'd make you any more likely to stay in the C-17? Only one of my IPs at UPT was AD qual'd (he went to AETC on request), the rest were just Air/Land.

[itsokimapilot]

Does being AD qual'd make you any more likely to stay in the C-17? Only one of my IPs at UPT was AD qual'd (he went to AETC on request), the rest were just Air/Land.

Not really, I was handed a T-6 with 2 years time on station as an AD examiner. Our squadron got 7 must fills on top of regular assignments this past Spring, same for this last cycle. Five of us were AD (2 ACAD, 3 CPAD). Luckily, I was able to opt out and retire. The rest didn't have that option. This is the standard at Charleston and McChord these days. The rumor is it's the same at Travis, McGuire, and Dover too, but I can't confirm. I would suspect that AFPC can't sustain this PCS rate forever. We were told we are overmanned. Tell that to my family that's seen me about 69 days this year.

[rbigred300]

Does being AD qual'd make you any more likely to stay in the C-17? Only one of my IPs at UPT was AD qual'd (he went to AETC on request), the rest were just Air/Land.

No, in my experience, being AD qual'd does not make you more likely to stay in the C-17...although I think 5-10 years ago it could have and so a lot of new guys might hear that from their UPT instructors. I would like to say that currently it has almost nothing to do with it at all. I just got to my second C-17 assignment, as an airland guy at Charleston and timing and ranking has everything to do with if you get a follow on C-17. For example, while I was there I saw countless guys that were not only airdrop but also SOLL II, get sent to a non C-17 assignment or to a non-air drop C-17 base...even real stand up guys. Out of my year group, myself, and two of my friends who were all just airland guys all got another C-17 assignment. Then, the next couple of assignment cycles after that there were at least 4 to 5 airdrop guys that all got sent to MC-12s or T6s/T1s. I would say that the only thing that airdrop does for you is makes you slightly more competitive for some opportunities and awards while you are at that base, which in turn could potentially give you a higher ranking and then get you that coveted only C-17 that might drop as a second assignment to your base/squadron. Also, as an airdrop guy, you could be more marketable for places like Hickam if they just so happen to only want a lead airdrop pilot or something. However, you will also spend a shit ton more time at Altus, and not go on as many trips as just airland guys...and just because you are airdrop does not guarantee you a higher ranking if you just happen to also be a douchebag. So in my mind, it was not really a risk at all to not go airdrop since I did not want to. Currently there are three situation that will happen: If you work your ass off and are a stand up person, and your commander loves you, you should get a C-17 as a second assignment; if you work kinda hard, and you have the right timing, you will also get a follow on; and lastly if the timing is just horrible, or you suck, there is nothing you can do about it, and you will most likely go AETC, MC-12s or UAVs. Of course, that could probably be applied to any assignment...

[jazzdude]

Don't be the guy that volunteers to be an airdropper in hopes of bettering their odds of staying in the C-17, do it because you want to execute the airdrop mission. Its a lot of extra work and probably won't help your chances significantly for ops to ops anyways. That being said, the airdrop mission is rewarding.

[disgruntledemployee]

If airdrop is what you want, go to Mighty Herk. Then you don't have to be featured in that lame-ass "that guy" cartoon above the C-17 sq urinal for asking to drop shit out the back of a plane.

Out

[Fuzz]

Don't be the guy that volunteers to be an airdropper in hopes of bettering their odds of staying in the C-17, do it because you want to execute the airdrop mission. Its a lot of extra work and probably won't help your chances significantly for ops to ops anyways. That being said, the airdrop mission is rewarding.

Valid, I do want to go AD for the reason of the mission, it was just something that came to mind while I was reading this thread and noticed the "trend" (or lack thereof) in my UPT IPs.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Scaredfuzz21

[MightyMoose]

Question for anyone who's been in the 17 for a while and has some SA. I'm headed to CHS in a couple months and was wondering what follow on assignments are looking like these days. I've heard unverified rumors that more second assignment 17s are on the horizon, anyone else heard this?

[GearMonkey]

Question for anyone who's been in the 17 for a while and has some SA. I'm headed to CHS in a couple months and was wondering what follow on assignments are looking like these days. I've heard unverified rumors that more second assignment 17s are on the horizon, anyone else heard this?

The last year or so has been pretty brutal. Everyone hopes the non-vol train will derail soon but trying to guess what things will be like in three years is a moo point. If you want to increase your chances of sticking around go airdrop (but don't do it just for that or you'll be miserable).

[C-21.Pilot]

If you want to increase your chances of sticking around go airdrop (but don't do it just for that or you'll be miserable).

Please enlighten us on how you can be miserable...

I did AD at TCM for 5 years, and absolutely LOVED it. Sure, you go to Altus 2 more times, have more currency items, checkrides, etc....but, why anyone wouldn't want to use their platform to the max baffles me.

To each their own. The 7 deployments I did were fantastic from a flying standpoint -- don't know what the AD rate is now in OEF but back in the day, you were easily looking at 90+ drops in a 120 day deployment. Beats the heck out of the airland missions, etc.

[Truman08]

Haven't seen many Ops-2-Ops assignments in the past year and a half. Mostly MC-12, white jets, or RPA. Can't speak for CHS though. Supposedly they're supposed to keep those in the jet around and slow down some of the PCS.

[WheelsOff]

a moo point.

[image]http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-images-cow-mooing-image22379519[/image]

As for combat AD in OEF right now, crews are hardly doing it at all, and will be doing absolutely none in the near future as the smaller FOBs and COPs are shutting down. Herks are doing the vast majority at this point.

Edit: dang my image posting skills on iPhone

Edited August 10, 2013 by WheelsOff

[GearMonkey]

Please enlighten us on how you can be miserable...

I did AD at TCM for 5 years, and absolutely LOVED it. Sure, you go to Altus 2 more times, have more currency items, checkrides, etc....but, why anyone wouldn't want to use their platform to the max baffles me.

To each their own. The 7 deployments I did were fantastic from a flying standpoint -- don't know what the AD rate is now in OEF but back in the day, you were easily looking at 90+ drops in a 120 day deployment. Beats the heck out of the airland missions, etc.

Easy killer, I'm not insulting airdrop. I've also done 5+ years of it and enjoyed the vast majority of that time. Despite this, or perhaps because of it, I know that airdrop isn't for everyone and my point was that if someone's sole reason for doing it was to get a 2nd C-17 tour they would most likely not enjoy the overall experience (extra Altus, more currency, Fayettenam, etc.).

You and I lived at the peak, for now, of C-17 aidrop. These days, with the decrease in airdrop manning (thanks AMC!) and the near elimination of combat drops, it is becoming more of a chore than it has been. A 3-ship low level or some test work at Yuma makes me glad I'm an airdropper. Single-ship cha-ching JAATTs with crappy weather and worthless radios at Pope or Lewis don't.

[flyguy2181]

I saw a discussion in the VML thread about getting back into the C-17 community after a white jet/UAV/etc tour. I wanted to answer but I figured this was a better post for it.

I just recently returned to the C-17 community after a white jet tour. The summer VML is difficult to return to the C-17 because all the school graduates headed to DO/CC slots fill the summer slots. I was told by the functional to try to be reclaima and try for the fall VML. Also, what requal slot you are trying for greatly affects your chances. I was trying for a ACRQ slot and there are only like 12 a year. It seemed like IPRQ were easier to get. Like everything in the AF, luck and timing have everything to do with it.

[nrodgsxr]

I saw a discussion in the VML thread about getting back into the C-17 community after a white jet/UAV/etc tour. I wanted to answer but I figured this was a better post for it.

I just recently returned to the C-17 community after a white jet tour. The summer VML is difficult to return to the C-17 because all the school graduates headed to DO/CC slots fill the summer slots. I was told by the functional to try to be reclaima and try for the fall VML. Also, what requal slot you are trying for greatly affects your chances. I was trying for a ACRQ slot and there are only like 12 a year. It seemed like IPRQ were easier to get. Like everything in the AF, luck and timing have everything to do with it.

I'm hearing the same thing regarding summer VML being no good for requal slots. I'm hoping for an IPRQ this fall

[ColoradoAviator]

I saw a discussion in the VML thread about getting back into the C-17 community after a white jet/UAV/etc tour. I wanted to answer but I figured this was a better post for it.

I just recently returned to the C-17 community after a white jet tour. The summer VML is difficult to return to the C-17 because all the school graduates headed to DO/CC slots fill the summer slots. I was told by the functional to try to be reclaima and try for the fall VML. Also, what requal slot you are trying for greatly affects your chances. I was trying for a ACRQ slot and there are only like 12 a year. It seemed like IPRQ were easier to get. Like everything in the AF, luck and timing have everything to do with it.

So how does that work for those that left the C-17 as an MP for UPT after only 1 ops assignment? If AC requal spots aren't available that VML cycle what happens? Another white jet tour? Forced crossflow? Auto-Pred/GHawk? I can name at least 12 people in this position in my year group alone.

edit: I blame Jack Daniels

Edited February 7, 2014 by ColoradoAviator

[TMILL]

Because you were in a flying assignment the time limit for a local requal is 51 months I believe.

[flyguy2181]

So how does that work for those that left the C-17 as an MP for UPT after only 1 ops assignment? If AC requal spots aren't available that VML cycle what happens? Another white jet tour? Forced crossflow? Auto-Pred/GHawk? I can name at least 12 people in this position in my year group alone.

I was in the same situation when I left the C-17 (as a MP). The functional would not have put me into another "must-fill" billet (UAVs, white jet, etc). So that would leave staff jobs, other flying gigs, etc. I know one former C-17 AC that went to staff and one went to C-12. The needs of the AF trump all but that was what he tried to do.

[Rusty Pipes]

Is local requal still an option for guys coming back into the fold?

It is an option, but there doesn't seem to be any set process to make it happen. I know a few guys doing it/who have done it... most were guys coming from staff who were out of the jet for less than the max time allowed (I don't have the AFI in front of me, but I think it is 39 months or less). Otherwise you need to go through the formal school house requal at Altus. Its not impossible to just get a standard PCS back, but from what I hear most of the summer cycle requal slots at Altus are used to requal Commander types (Sq CC's, DOs, OG CCs, Wing CC/CVs). The other part is that the Squadron needs to have the ability/desire to complete a local requal. This is going to be taken out of their training fence so they will lose a week or so worth of locals to get it done (most local AC/IP requals I've seen took 3-4 flights and then a Check). The few cases I've personally seen, the person had a "sponsor"... they knew a Sq or OG/CC and the boss just called or e-mailed the functional saying, "You've got Capt/Maj XYZ on the VML out of Staff at Scott... we could really use him here and are willing to do a local requal for him if you can work it." Functional says, "That works for me... We'll load it for him soon." I'm not saying that is the standard, but I've been in the room when that call was made or CC'd on the e-mail trail on several instances just like that... it was really as easy as that. I'm quite sure that isn't the standard, but it is one of the ways to make it work.

[WheelsOff]

Is local requal still an option for guys coming back into the fold?

Yes. A guy in my squadron just came back from a UPT IP assignment and did it here in-house. Not standard, but it does happen.

[MooseAg03]

I almost hate to recycle this thread since it was started by Scoobs, but is there anyone still in the C-17 community that can give an idea of what the current ops tempo is like? I'm interested in any and all info I can get from a variety of bases. I've been out since 2012 and I've heard it's much slower.


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[Fuzz]

You've heard wrong, at least at McChord. We have people 30 day timing out and copilots who have racked up 700 hours in 6 months. Between the TACC taskings and the huge up tick in JA/ATTS & Exercises coupled with the huge slash in manning we are running at max capacity to surge levels consistently. They are also supposedly upping our deployments from 75 to 90 days.

Some of the older guys say it's worse now that the 2008 surge.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Fuzz

[POKESC17]

Depends on location. As one of those older guys, it's way slower. Not even remotely close to 2008 levels. At least at the single Sq bases. Deployment guys are returning after 75 with about 150-200 hours and timing out isn't a concern at home station. Every once in a while it gets tough to fill everything but it's usually a currency or IP availability issue. Find out which base you're headed to and call them.


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[MooseAg03]

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping to escape RPA purgatory soon and weighing my options.


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[POKESC17]

Escaping that black hole was a great feeling!


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[FUSEPLUG]

11 hours ago, POKESC17 said:

 As one of those older guys....

That's a scary thought.  Glad you're back in the jet, man.

I'll add that the jets are starting to show their age.  I'm at a Guard unit that admittedly has some former AD hangar queens, but the maintenance issues are getting ridiculous  As a Traditional, I will not take a trip without at least two days of buffer before an airline trip.  While it will never be as bad as the C-5, I fly with a lot of former FRED flyers that are scratching their heads at the reliability of the jet these days.