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Guest Slye

General info on UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training)

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Guest pinko

Also for VT3 you can track 38s, do the a-form program, and if either you dont want to continue, or if the IPs dont think you can hack 38s at Vance, theyll switch you back to the Tone.

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Guest gtyj98

A tad off the main subject, but...

I know of several guys who graduated 38s, and for different reasons, are now flying heavies.

Two examples. A buddy from my UPT class was a 38 FAIP, had a major back operation and had to switch to a non-ejection aircraft (went to the C-17). Another guy I met in GRACC at Scott AFB graduated 38s and asked for a C-17, and subsequently got it instead of a fighter/bomber--extremely rare circumstance though.

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Guest JArcher00

mabye failed out of IFF like some I know and then went heavy

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Originally posted by Apollo:

I've heard of people

not yet starting T-38s at Vance changing to T-1s

after some thinking... but after you start.... I

think it would be kind of rare.

Don't you start T-38s/1s like the day after you track select?

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Originally posted by backseatdriver:

Don't you start T-38s/1s like the day after you track select?

You start the program right away, but not flying. You've got a couple weeks of academics and simulators before you get your first flight.

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This has been said before in another post but it was a great point so I'll repeat it.

If you wash out of 38s because you can't hack it, they aren't going to put you in a T-1.

Just like if you wash out of T-1s beacuse you can't hack it they aren't going to send you to T-38s.

You can't get reassigned to a different track out of T-38s. You can get assigned to a bomber or a fighter for that matter and then in another tour go fly a heavy, of go back and fly T-1s.

Cheers,

BeerMan

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Originally posted by backseatdriver:

So if you're still in academics, you can switch?

I seriously doubt it. Remember that when the assignments are given out at track select, there is one spot for everybody. So if you really want T-1s but T-38s are the only thing left (I've seen it happen), you're getting a T-38. The only way I could see a switch happening is if two people (one from each side) came forward immediately after selecting and said that each had been pressured into their choice by (I've seen this happen as well) and wished to change. Then maybe this could happen.

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Guest Apollo
Originally posted by backseatdriver:

Don't you start T-38s/1s like the day after you track select?

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Guest RaptorwannaB

Another thing I was wondering about UPT was how a class is stratified at UPT. Basically, what makes the #1 guy in a class #1? Any insight? thanks!

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1) Attitude

2) Commit the study time (know when it's time to go out partying--not every night/weekend)

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Class ranking is based on flight commander ranking (what the IPs think of you), daily flying scores, checkride scores, and academics.

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Guest jraedy

Does the FACT weigh at all, or is it basically a pass/fail thing?

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As long as you pass the FACT, your score doesn't matter. FACT does not directly weight into the overall ranking. However, if you can't pass it you may not have the best commander's ranking.

Another thing I was wondering about UPT was how a class is stratified at UPT. Basically, what makes the #1 guy in a class #1? Any insight? thanks!

Here's some info on and here's some info on

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Guest x-wing

I was wondering how many flight hours per phase of UPT each student gets. I was able to find the ENJJPT numbers are they the same for regular UPT?

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The T-37 syllabus calls for a minimum of 89 hours and that is not normally an issue as long as the ASD (average sortie duration) isn't capped low for your entire time. Most students will have one or two 86 sorties (those are somewhat freebie rides after a break of 5 days or more in the jet) or have to repeat a ride for an incomplete or an unsat. The T-38 syllabus (at least when I was a student about 2 years ago) required 117 hours. Don't know for sure about the T-1 side but I think they had less sorties but more hours but some of those hours sitting in the jump seat (from what I know during the Transition phase, or first portion of the syllabus, you fly with an IP and another student and split the time at the controls with the other student but log all the time) Hope that helps and sorry it took 3 or 4 posts to get a worthwhile answer. I know not everyone is interested but I feel it was a valid question.

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Guest x-wing

Phase 2 sorties/ hours

Category Dual Solo Total

Contact 35/44.7 1 1/13.7 46/58.4

Instrument 23/32.9 23/32.9

Navigation 8/10.4 8/10.4

Formation 14/18.6 2/2.7 16/21.3

Total 80/106.6 13/16.4 93/123.0

Phase 3

Category Dual Solo Total

Contact 21/25.1 9/9.9 30/35.0

Instrument 28/36.8 3/3.5 31/40.3

Navigation 9/10.4 9/10.4

Formation 32/36.5 7/7.8 39/44.3

Total 90/108.8 19/21.2 109/130.0

I found this info on one of the ENJJPT journals.

thanks for the responces guys

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I'll have about 100 in the T-34 when I'm done at Whiting (next week!) Thats with about 4-5 mandatory 86 rides for being out of the plane longer than 5 days prior to solo flights. You can finish in around 90 hours if the weather and schedules work in your favor (doesn't really matter if you suck or not.) We also get 34 hours in the sim.

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Guest Sniper5482

I've been looking through some of the old discussions about assignments out of UPT, but I still had a few questions...

It's normally about 6-7 months after UPT starts that you get moved into either T-1s or T-38s, right? Are those the only two paths or do helos get picked then too? Also, does the class like split up then or are you all still a part of the same class but some guys are flying different trainers? I thought that at Moody you had to move after 6 months?? And many of the posts that guys are making with all the aircraft that were dished out for their class included both for T-38s and T-1s.

What do the percentages normally look like? I'm thinking like 70% go T-1 and 30% go T-38? And at this point you don't find out what aircraft you'll get after UPT, right? You don't find that out until you finish in 38s or 1s right?

If someone could go through the pipeline step by step that would be really helpful. A lot of us guys going to UPT soon appreciate all the info you experienced guys can offer...

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Guest sickels101

Phase I = Academics for 6 weeks

Phase II = T-38/T-6 for 5-6 months

You then go to either T-1s (refueler/airlift), T-38s (fighter/bomber), T-44s in Corpus Christi (C-130s although you can still get them out of T-1s), and Hueys out of Ft. Rucker.

Generally, most of the dudes go to T-1s. Usually anywhere from 3-6 dudes will get picked for 38s. And then less than one helo average per drop and about 1-2 130s.

You will stay in the same class unless going to another base for 130s or helos. You will just combine with the class in front or behind you.

Not sure about Moody but I have heard you do have to leave but still not sure.

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Guest FlyingAgain

You track select six months after you start. Track select determines whether you get T-1s, T-38s, UH-1s (Ft. Rucker), or T-44s (NAS Corpus Christi).

T-6 Students at Moody will leave Moody at the six month point and go to either Corpus, Ft. Rucker, or a normal UPT base (Laughlin, Columbus, or Vance) to get T-1s or T-38s.

If you're at a regular UPT base, those who get T-1s and T-38s will remain in the same class, although will rarely see each other during the course of a normal work day. There are still social functions as well as fund raisers you will do as a class.

It's hard to look at percentages at a typical track select. There is usually one UH-1, five or so T-44s, four to six T-38s (determined by how many people are coming in from Moody), and the rest T-1s.

Hope that helps. I'm sure a lot of people on here can fill in anything I missed.

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Guest Slye

Yes, it's normally ~7 months before Phase III starts. At that point you can go T-1s, T-38s, T-44s, or UH-1s. Everyone who tracks is still part of the same class but of course are flying different things. The studs who go to T-44s and UH-1s are not really in the same class though because their timelines are a little different and since they're switching bases, they will have a delay in their training.

If you go to Moody for Phases I and II (which will end eventually thanks to BRAC, but anyways) you will leave after you track because that base doesn't have follow-on aircraft for Phase III. If you're at any other base besides Moody, you'll stay where you're at if you get T-1s or T-38s.

It's usually a little less than 30% T-38s, with most of the rest being T-1s. There's usually 1 UH-1 and a few T-44s. I've seen it vary quite a bit from those numbers before though. You're correct, you won't know what aircraft you'll fly until the end of Phase III.

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Guest Sniper5482

and what's the average class size? about 20? how many usually come in wanting to go T-1? T-38? T-44? helo? out of the number that get it?

in other words how many broken hearts are out there?

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