Jump to content
Guest buddy

Finance Problems

Recommended Posts


DTS for czte? Can you explain. I deployed dec-mar and am in need of a w-2 amended. The only thing I've seen this far is my fsa pay. No hardship pay, no HFP or czte.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

When we submit our Vouchers, finance automatically checks the locations and if we have CZTE/HFP eligible locations, they process it accordingly and it shows up a month or two later on our LES.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:


When we submit our Vouchers, finance automatically checks the locations and if we have CZTE/HFP eligible locations, they process it accordingly and it shows up a month or two later on our LES.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wait, what? You serious?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wait, what? You serious?

Yes. It was shocking to me too. It's also annoying because I'm about to take leave and should have 7.5 days of tax free leave, but it hasn't posted yet and I'm only showing 2.5.

 

On the topic of tax free leave, it's annoying it's always the first to burn, even if you already are tax free for the whole month (I'm not for April).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some background on the situation before I go on a rant. Four of my B-Course bros and I got stationed at Elmo and 3 of us decided to buy trailers so we could make money off the DITY and bring the trailer up to AK where trailers and campers are 2x the price. We figured we'd take the AMHS ferry to take a break from driving and to avoid driving through remote and wintry Canada. We all made it up to AK now and finally got to be graced by finance's presence only to be told that they will only reimburse up to 21 feet in cost for the ferry car storage. I had 34 feet, including my truck and trailer. So, doing the math I lose out on ~$1000 because someone decided that they'll only reimburse up to 21 feet and for some reason I can't find that reg anywhere in the JTR. Oh and the finance dude said "This is the first time I've ever seen someone drive a trailer onto a ferry to travel up here". I'm trying to figure out the logic behind it and how you could actually accomplish a DITY move during winter where it's nearly impossible to drive the entire distance through BC/Yukon.

Okay now that my rant is over, does anyone have any experience in this subject matter that can help us argue our situation? After all, we were told by both the Tyndall TMO and Finance that the Ferry was fully reimbursable, even with a trailer. Shack on me for believing anything that TMO or Finance says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Ask to speak with the first officer in the finance chain

2. Have the JTR reference that shows you should be reimbursed for dragging a trailer. 

3. The burden of proof is on FINANCE to show you the reg/reference that says 21 feet max. 

4. If you think their proof is in violation of the JTR (which trumps local policy and afi), elevate. 

5. If finance turns out to be right, work to fix the process so the next round of b-course dity movers aren't similarly surprised. 

6. Profit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure the reg but I remember in '04/'07 I was warned about some trailer issues on the ferry so this is not new. I think both length and number of axles was a factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it's time to PCS again, which means it's time to argue with finance.  I went to talk to them about my BAH today and did not get the answer I was hoping for.  We are PCSing from a location with terrible BAH rates to a more expensive location with much higher BAH rates.  According to the JTR, Chapter 10, Part E, B. Location Rate, #5, subsection g it states that BAH can be determined by dependent location if you are doing PME or training less than 1 year in length.  I am taking my family to the new duty station so the kids can start school before I begin my TDY en-route training.  Finance guy insists that BAH cannot change until I show up at the new duty station and fill out my travel voucher.  JTR says different, does anyone have any experience with getting this approved?  We are talking like a $900 difference per month, and I'm sick of bending over and letting the AF screw me because they don't follow the JTR.

Here is the excerpt from the JTR:

 "B. Location Rate. Ordinarily a housing allowance is paid based on the member’s PDS, or the home port for a

member assigned to a ship or afloat unit. However, the Service may determine that a member’s assignment to a

PDS or the circumstances of that assignment requires the dependent to reside separately. The Secretary  concerned

or the Secretarial Process, at Service discretion, may authorize/approve a housing allowance based on the

dependent’s location or old PDS.

 1-4. Blah blah blah

  5. Examples of Location Rate Changes Routinely Authorized/Approved: The member is:

     a - f.  Blah blah blah

     g.  Assigned to a Professional Military Education (PME) or training course that is scheduled for a duration of one year or less."

Edited by MooseAg03
added JTR references

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

So it's time to PCS again, which means it's time to argue with finance.  I went to talk to them about my BAH today and did not get the answer I was hoping for.  We are PCSing from a location with terrible BAH rates to a more expensive location with much higher BAH rates.  According to the JTR, Chapter 10, Part E, B. Location Rate, #5, subsection g it states that BAH can be determined by dependent location if you are doing PME or training less than 1 year in length.  I am taking my family to the new duty station so the kids can start school before I begin my TDY en-route training.  Finance guy insists that BAH cannot change until I show up at the new duty station and fill out my travel voucher.  JTR says different, does anyone have any experience with getting this approved?  We are talking like a $900 difference per month, and I'm sick of bending over and letting the AF screw me because they don't follow the JTR.

Here is the excerpt from the JTR:

 "B. Location Rate. Ordinarily a housing allowance is paid based on the member’s PDS, or the home port for a

member assigned to a ship or afloat unit. However, the Service may determine that a member’s assignment to a

PDS or the circumstances of that assignment requires the dependent to reside separately. The Secretary  concerned

or the Secretarial Process, at Service discretion, may authorize/approve a housing allowance based on the

dependent’s location or old PDS.

 1-4. Blah blah blah

  5. Examples of Location Rate Changes Routinely Authorized/Approved: The member is:

     a - f.  Blah blah blah

     g.  Assigned to a Professional Military Education (PME) or training course that is scheduled for a duration of one year or less."

Are your dependents on your orders? If yes, then is concurrent or non-concurrent travel authorized? Concurrent could make you eligible for transient BAH. Or are you in the grey, I forget how many days are grey, perhaps 30?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are your dependents on your orders? If yes, then is concurrent or non-concurrent travel authorized? Concurrent could make you eligible for transient BAH. Or are you in the grey, I forget how many days are grey, perhaps 30?

Dependents are all listed on the orders, nothing is selected in box 10 for type of tour (accompanied, unaccompanied, etc) or in box 13 about dependent travel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dammit, I used the wrong reference.  It's Chapter 10, Part E, Section 7.  Advance or Delayed dependent travel.  This tells me that I can move my family there ahead of me so my kids can start school, and since I am doing training they should change my BAH to the location of my dependents.

 10412 DEPENDENT TRAVEL - ADVANCE AND DELAYED

A. General. When a PCS order has been issued, the member’s family may perform PCS travel at a different time

than the member.

1. Example of Advance Travel. A member stationed in England receives a PCS authorization/order in July for

reassignment to Norfolk with a November reporting date. The member’s family returns in August to get settled

before school starts in September.

2. Example of Delayed Travel. A member stationed in Chicago receives a PCS authorization/order in January

to report to Japan in April. The member’s family remains in Chicago until the school year ends in June.

B. Housing Allowance Based on Dependents’ Location or Old PDS. Unless otherwise authorized/approved, a

member’s housing allowance is based on the PDS. A member may be authorized a housing allowance based on the

location at which the dependents maintain a permanent residence, or the old PDS, if authorized/approved through the

Secretarial Process. Examples of separation situations that are routinely authorized/approved at a lower level than

the Service Secretary include:

1. The member is assigned to a PDS in an area in which sufficient housing quantities do not exist;

...

7. The member is assigned to a Professional Military Education (PME) or a training course that is scheduled for

a duration of one year or less.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ask to talk to the first officer in the finance chain of command. Ruffles feathers with the sweaties...but gets the job done usually. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Ask to talk to the first officer in the finance chain of command. Ruffles feathers with the sweaties...but gets the job done usually. 

Shack.  I've used this many times and it works.  Stay polite (don't give up the moral high ground!) but don't leave until you get some concrete answers from someone who knows WTF they are talking about.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem you are running into is the phrase "if authorized/approved by the Secretarial Process."

My understanding was they were talking about authorization by dependents to move +/- 6 months from the member but hadn't enacted it yet. More Googling necessary.

Edited by ThreeHoler
Spellung

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if they can cut back on pro gear and spouse pro gear because of the new definitions in the JTR, then they sure as f*ck can change my BAH per the JTR. I'm sick of this bullshit and them only following the regs when it benefits big blue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Went through your exact situation 3 years ago. The solution is you write an MFR to the SAF office that handles travel/JTR stuff outlining the situation and referencing the JTR portions that apply. The key phrase is "normally approved via the secretarial process." That phrase is what auto makes this a SAF-level issue; there is nothing even your wing/cc can do. Start asking finance what the process is for the MFR, who specifically it goes to, etc.  FYI, it took the MSG/CC at my previous base to figure out the actual process.

If I can find my old MFR I'll send it to you, no promises it has survived the last two moves. 

EDIT: Found the MFR and approval response; Moose, send me a PM with your .mil email and I'll send over.

Edited by brabus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like this is the solution, MPF/Finance is submitting a BAH waiver to HQ AF/A1. We'll see what happens in a few weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Went to Edwards for a course and the closest airport is 90 min away in Ontario and diff Per Diem area. I'm authorized lodging around airport site for an early flight out the next day right? Would I have 2 per diem locations (airport and course)?

Ive combed through the JTR and I cannot find where-

1. It mentions flying into airports outside of TDY location 

2. Lodging allowed in airport location prior to return travel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, rancormac said:

Went to Edwards for a course and the closest airport is 90 min away in Ontario and diff Per Diem area. I'm authorized lodging around airport site for an early flight out the next day right? Would I have 2 per diem locations (airport and course)?

Ive combed through the JTR and I cannot find where-

1. It mentions flying into airports outside of TDY location 

2. Lodging allowed in airport location prior to return travel

I have no reference but every time I go TDY from home station the closest airport is a 90 minute drive, if it's a early flight we stay overnight by the airport the night before. I get reimbursed every time no questions, and yes, we get the rate for the airport location for that night. Probably not the book answer you wanted, but hey, gotta take what you can get. That is also my philosophy on beer and women............

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make Ontario a TDY location in DTS. Example:

Home Base = Depart 13 sep

TDY Location 1 = Edwards (assuming you fly into Ontario, but go to Edwards that day), arrive 13 sep, depart 19 sep

TDY Location 2 = Ontario, arrive 19 Sep, depart 20 Sep (early flight out the 20th).

Home Base = Arrive 20 Sep

Problem solved since per diem is tied to TDY location.  Never had a problem once using this method.

 

 

Edited by brabus
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, brabus said:

Make Ontario a TDY location in DTS. Example:

Home Base = Depart 13 sep

TDY Location 1 = Edwards (assuming you fly into Ontario, but go to Edwards that day), arrive 13 sep, depart 19 sep

TDY Location 2 = Ontario, arrive 19 Sep, depart 20 Sep (early flight out the 20th).

Home Base = Arrive 20 Sep

Problem solved since per diem is tied to TDY location.  Never had a problem once using this method.

 

 

For sure-fire success, make sure it's in your orders/authorization that way, vice adjusting your per diem locations on your voucher.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's definitely what I did and passes the common sense test. 

I just couldn't find anything in the JTR that I could reference supporting it incase finance wigs out 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Weezer said:

For sure-fire success, make sure it's in your orders/authorization that way, vice adjusting your per diem locations on your voucher.

And always build authorizations with variations authorized checked.  You never know when stuff gonna change.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, the g-man said:

And always build authorizations with variations authorized checked.  You never know when stuff gonna change.

I got called on overuse of the "variations authorized" a few times.  Here's a very patronizing link on the subject.  If you actually click through to the JTR, it doesn't give much more info, only, that you can go to destinations not named in the order, change the specified time spent at a named destination, change the sequence of the named destinations, and omit travel to named destinations.  Finance, in my experience, still makes you get amendments to extend the overall length of the trip, as well as change allowances such as staying off/on base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/14/2017 at 7:07 AM, Weezer said:

I got called on overuse of the "variations authorized" a few times.  Here's a very patronizing link on the subject.  If you actually click through to the JTR, it doesn't give much more info, only, that you can go to destinations not named in the order, change the specified time spent at a named destination, change the sequence of the named destinations, and omit travel to named destinations.  Finance, in my experience, still makes you get amendments to extend the overall length of the trip, as well as change allowances such as staying off/on base.

I've never had DTS orders that didn't have variations authorized. Even when I didn't build the orders myself it was always there.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×