Back Pain/Problems/Surgery

[Guest wannabeflyer]

I just comissioned and am suppose to be going to IFS in a few months. I just found out i have a rare

condition that requires back surgery. Basically i have a hole in my vertabre and i have to have them stick some

pieces of bone graph in there to stimulate bone growth and fill in the hole. The doctor said that i should be able to be doing physical activity in a month and that it should heal up to be 100% but that will take a while. Is there anyway this would be waiverable. If i have to push back dates will I automatically lose my slot? (I'm suppose to start UPT in Jan.)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also wondering if there's anyway i could keep this under the radar?

[Guest P27:17]

I just comissioned and am suppose to be going to IFS in a few months. I just found out i have a rare

condition that requires back surgery. Basically i have a hole in my vertabre and i have to have them stick some

pieces of bone graph in there to stimulate bone growth and fill in the hole. The doctor said that i should be able to be doing physical activity in a month and that it should heal up to be 100% but that will take a while. Is there anyway this would be waiverable. If i have to push back dates will I automatically lose my slot? (I'm suppose to start UPT in Jan.)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also wondering if there's anyway i could keep this under the radar?

I'll do some checking but it would be helpful to have a diagnosis, specific treatment plan, and prognosis. Is it from a disease process...have you always had it or has is recently come about?

[Guest P27:17]

I just comissioned and am suppose to be going to IFS in a few months. I just found out i have a rare

condition that requires back surgery. Basically i have a hole in my vertabre and i have to have them stick some

pieces of bone graph in there to stimulate bone growth and fill in the hole. The doctor said that i should be able to be doing physical activity in a month and that it should heal up to be 100% but that will take a while. Is there anyway this would be waiverable. If i have to push back dates will I automatically lose my slot? (I'm suppose to start UPT in Jan.)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm also wondering if there's anyway i could keep this under the radar?

I checked with one of my docs and here's what his response was:

"It is tough to comment on without knowing the diagnosis. But if this is not

cancer which it does not sound like, and if it is not expected to return it

may not even need a waiver.

The candidate needs to let the det or whatever chain of command is involved

know of this. It will then be reviewed by AETC and a decision made as to

whether waiver is needed and what AF evaluation is appropriate, if any.

Not disclosing this would be a serious error. I can understand the

motivation to try and keep this out of view, but this will certainly be

noted at some point, likely sooner rather than later. That would then

almost certainly result is loss of pilot training slot, action for removal

from ROTC or whatever commissioning program, and potentially UCMJ action.

My experience with orthopedic type issues, even ones involving the spine,

result in a favorable outcome for the applicant most of the time.

I recommend the applicant fess up early, get treated early, be aggressive

following aftercare instructions and the most likely scenario is favorable

for the applicant."

Good luck

[Guest gpecar]

I had a cyst removed from my L4/L5 in my spine. I received a waiver after a couple of examinations and visits to a Neurologist. The key to the entire process is persistence. If you have a real desire to do this then from the sound of it, this should not stop you. However, I am not a Doc and it all depends on your condition. I went through all of the waivers while I was enlisted before I even applied for a pilot slot. It took me about 8 months to get the waiver(s) approved by AETC. My guard unit basically had to put together a package with letters from different docs saying that I was good to go.

I would NOT recommend keeping this from them. If you go to training and have any issues with your back and then tell them "Oh ya by the way I had spine surgery" that would not be good. I dont know what you want to fly, but keep in mind that one of the keys to success in a fighter is being able to rotate your body and Check 6 while pulling Gs. The key for me was to constantly work out my lower back and always stretch. Again I dont know your condition but just keep in mind that a lot is possible if you are persistent and dont take no for an answer. Good luck and never give up.

[Guest wannabeflyer]

Thanks so much for the responses. I have my surgery scheduled for this thurs. To elaborate a little further i have an anuerysmal bone cyst in one of my vertabre. It's a benign tumor and the doctors seem optimistic that there will be no reoccurance and in time will heal to be as strong as before. It sounds like my best course of action would be full disclosure. At this point i'm not sure i have much of a choice anyway. Like I said I'm suppose to go to IFS in mid Sept. and start UPT in january and I'm worried that if I can't meet those dates I'll lose my slot, or I will get med. DQ or they will only give me a partial waiver and not let me try to track fighters. Again thanks for the insight.

[Guest wannabeflyer]

had surgery, Went well, now i just have to hope that big blue still lets me fly. I'll post the results as there is bound to be someone someday in the same situaition

[Guest NoGoodName]

Doc(s), here the situation, need some help:

Been flying the line for about 3 years now. I have had a shooting pain that goes down my leg everytime I bend over and put a strecth into my right leg. It is almost umbearable in the morning. This problem has has been off and on for 5 years now. I finally capitulated to an MRI and doc visit (by order of my wife after I refused sex due to the pain). Doc says I have two herniated discs (I cannot remember which ones....the report is at home and I am deployed). Says he believes they may become "frank" with future trauma. I currently fly a crewed aircraft so G's are not a factor.

Now that I am deployed and away from any sort of therapy and chiropractic treatment, the pain gets worse and worse. I continue to workout and avoid any sort of exercise that directly loads the spine (squats). Working out is the only therapy I have that really staves off any of the pain.

I sometimes get to the point where the pain is so bad, I cannot even bend over far enough to get out of the seat of the plane, and even my car in the morning. Taking the 800mg Motrin horse pills and working out are my only weapons against this back pain agony.

I have had a come to Jesus talk with my wife, and I am going to the flight doc as soon as I return. I do not want surgery on my back. Is this grounds for permanent DNIF? I would prefer a permanent DNIF and crossflow into another career field than deal with this off and on problem until I get out of the cockpit.

My greatest fear with this problem is my occasional inability to egress the aircraft in the event of smoke/fumes on the ground, bailout, etc. It's just simply too painful to even bend forward and get out of the seat!

Thanks for any help you can provide...

NGN

[Guest awfltdoc]

My greatest fear with this problem is my occasional inability to egress the aircraft in the event of smoke/fumes on the ground, bailout, etc. It's just simply too painful to even bend forward and get out of the seat.

NGN

If I were you, I would not hesitate and I would auto-DNIF myself, see the flight doc, and get this taken care of. You are not doing yourself or anyone else any good waiting if you are this bad off.

Now as far as what is disqualifying, a "frank" disk herniation is when the goo of the center of the disk is spewing out (STS). If you have a "herniation" that is not "frank" then the disk is just buldging out a bit. It may be possible to fix you without a permanent DQ. However, its probably gonna take some time.

If I was your treating flight doc, I'd probably profile you, get you to an orthopedic surgeon, some physical therapy, and you may end up needing an epidural steroid injection or two, possibly neurosurgery or neurology consults depending on your exam. Just depends on what exactly is going on. Your pain might not be coming from the "herniated disks". Might be some other process that needs clarification. Anyway, I think your still salvageable. I have had fighter guys stay in the cockpit with the right treatment to treat a non-frank herniated disk.

I am sure that before you're crosstrained, Big Blue is going to insist all possible medical intervention is applied. They are not going to want to give up on you having a diagnosis of herniated disk (non-frank) without the medical folks saying they have done all they can to keep you flying.

[Toro]

I actually was talking to a guy today who had a similar situation with respect to the surgery and potential for DNIF. While he was lifting, he did something to his right arm that caused him gradually increasing pain. When he finally went to the doc, they gave him an MRI and told him that he had severed a nerve in his arm that would require surgery. He said no way, figuring it would be an extended DNIF at best for him. When the doc explained that he could eventually lose all use of his right arm (verified by some mobility and strength tests), he changed his mind and got the surgery. He's fine now and back flying.

Again, not exactly the same thing, but similar. I tend to shy away from the flight doc for anything I can handle with Motrin, but yours is one that could end not a flying career if it gets worse, but your mobility in general.

(by order of my wife after I refused sex due to the pain)

Yup, that would do it for me.

[Guest wannabeflyer]

Just thought I'd update incase anyone else is in this situation.

I got my FC1 recertified without a waiver. I had a good letter from my surgeon that helped

a lot. I just got upchecked at NOMI (for Navy training) and am good to go!

[Guest TonyT]

Can I still become a fighter pilot if I had lower back surgery 5 years ago ?

I had a herniated disk in my L4/L5 and the surgery consisted of them shaving off the part of the disk that was herniated leaving the rest of the disk unharmed. I now have no problem with my back and still have all my disks. Is this a problem? (P.S. I meet the rest of the requirements)

[Guest P27:17]

Can I still become a fighter pilot if I had lower back surgery 5 years ago ?

I had a herniated disk in my L4/L5 and the surgery consisted of them shaving off the part of the disk that was herniated leaving the rest of the disk unharmed. I now have no problem with my back and still have all my disks. Is this a problem? (P.S. I meet the rest of the requirements)

Sehttps://kx.afms.mil/kxweb/dotmil/file/web/ctb_070984.pdf

see attached...you never know until you try

ctb_070984_1_.pdf

[aspec]

Roughly three to four months ago I started noticing a lower back pain. I don't know what exactly caused it, either flying or weight lifting but regardless, it wasn't anything unusual as I've had a sore lower back after working out before. It slowly got worse over the course of about one to two months and it seemed to become really aggravated after driving for two days during a PCS. At that point I had my flight doc check it out during in-processing and he said it's likely just the muscle that can take a while to heal. Over the next month or so it would feel better some days and worse on other days (wasn't flying during this period). Once I started flying there wasn't much change. It started getting a lot better until today (having not flown in about 12 days) while under G (6-7) I felt something weird in my lower back like the muscle slightly pulling (not painful at all) and sure enough, the pain is back and seems a little worse than before now.

Has anyone experienced something similar to this? I've never had any issues with my lower back until this. The pain is not radiating to my legs or anything. When I'm standing up it's hardly noticeable but when I'm sitting down or trying to touch my toes from a standing position, the pain occurs. My main concern is this turning into a permanent problem. I'm thinking a chiropractor is in order but I'm interested to see if anyone has had a similar issue.

[contraildash]

aspec,

I've been experiencing some lower back issues recently that sound like yours. About once a year, and it's bad enough to hit the emergency room. Mine are directly related to dehydration and tight hamstrings (happens when you run/bike alot). I've had to get into a very regular stretching regime including some yoga. It's helped wonders. My flight doc explained the anatomy of the lower back muscles, but it was beyond me. In short, everything is connected, needs to be stretched. Have a strong core (abs, ect). If you slack off and the lower back pain occurs more often, then you can end up with slipped dics, ect.

That's just my experience.

[nwithom]

When I was in high school I had two herniated disks and had surgery on one, my L4/L5 disk (disecotomy). since then I have had no problems. However, I got DQ'ed. I have been told that you can get a wavier for this but it will be very hard. Any thoughts/suggestions on this?

[Guest]

Not a Doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

To my understanding, Discectomy implies protions of your nucleus pulposus were removed. Here's the reg for the disqualification.

6.44.26.1.7. History of frank herniated nucleus pulposus, or history of surgery or chemonucleolysis for that condition.

6.44.26.1.8. Fractures or dislocations of the vertebrae. History of fractures of the transverse processes is not disqualifying if asymptomatic. See aircrew waiver guide for waiverable spinal fractures.

...

6.44.26.1.13. Any surgical fusion.

Level of Disc Herniation

Cervical/thoracic/lumbar

Flying Class

FC I/IA

Waiver Potential | Waiver Authority

No

Waiting Period Post Treatment

N/A

Required Studies

N/A

---------

Level of Disc Herniation

Thoracic/lumbar

Flying Class

FC II

Waiver Potential | Waiver Authority

Yes | MAJCOM

Waiting Period Post Treatment

3 months

Required Studies

None required

The waiver guide shows some FC1's have gotten approved, but my quick review of AIMWTS is a much more dismal outlook. My advise, go FCII. Edited December 13, 2012 by deaddebate

[nwithom]

Thanks for the info. Maybe I should have mentioned that I have been picked up by the reserves to fly and am not currently in the Air Force. Don't you need an FCI to fly? If not what is the difference between FCI and FCII?

[Guest]

Pilot vs. non-pilot. There's a number of Flying Classes, I being the most stringent and difficult medically; other FC's include II, IIU, III, GBC, SOD, MOD, 9C, etc. Your diagnosis will need a waiver, but the chances of a FCI waiver are near nil. I recommend you shoot for a different flying position in the AF. Or ask a Navy forum about their flight standards. Or consider non-fly positions. Or invent a pistachio-based engine degreaser. Whatever, just not Pilot.

[Motrin]

When I was in high school I had two herniated disks and had surgery on one, my L4/L5 disk (disecotomy). since then I have had no problems. However, I got DQ'ed. I have been told that you can get a wavier for this but it will be very hard. Any thoughts/suggestions on this?

deaddebate is right, yet again. Your chances of obtaining a waiver for FC I or Ia (nav, wso, etc..) are very low. You may not even make it to the physical exam portion if your record is screened out as having a dq condition that is not waiverable.

However, it never hurts to try, so I suggest you start the progress. I have seen a few FC I exams with herniated discs, history of fusion, spondylolisthesis which is symptomatic, which were rejected despite my begging and pleading with AETC. On the bright side, I have seen plenty of FC IIU (RPA), initial FC II (flight surgeon), FC II (trained asset rated aviator), and FC III (most other flying jobs like ABM, FE, aerial gunner).

Good luck to you!