HuggyU2 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) Fair enough, Stifler. But, you know the situation: you're walking to lunch, and approaching an enlisted airman. You know he'll salute you, and he's waiting until the last second. Let's just get it over with, puulleeessse. I just don't want to walk up, cocked and ready, waiting to return his salute (which I'm obliged to do) when he's good-and-ready to deliver it. So, I just initiate the process and get it out of the way. I'm not worked up by it,... I just want to go to lunch, say high to a fellow airman, and push through the formalities. And my crew chiefs usually get a kick out of it when I salute them first. If you think that's gay, then don't go to lunch with me. And, assuming you're a Captain, why would it bother you if a 1Lt saluted you? Edited June 22, 2007 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Tex Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 It seems that quite a few people have issues with the idea of customs and courtesies. We're in the military--salute and drive on. Who cares if it is something "I just want to get over with." Even if I know the guy (he's a 1Lt..me a Capt) he should still salute, especially in front of the BX, Gym, in front of the sq bldg, etc. Gimme a break if it's something that may "make me feel uncomfortable"--we're in the military! Call it anal, but too many guys forget the basics! Rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I hate how the Army clowns salute in PT gear. It ain't just the Army. Standard Big Blue fashion: We want our own proud heritage. Let's get PT gear and wear it around the AOR, just ike the Army. Then let's make PT gear saluting in the AOR mandatory, just like the Army. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 It ain't just the Army. HD With regards to the Army, it ain't just the PT gear either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I think saluting other LTs is rather absurd, but almost all of the SNCOs I discuss this topic with get all eaten up about it. "If you don't have to salute a higher rank, WTF should I salute officers?" It's very interesting to see the different viewpoints. To us it's no big deal, but some of these guys get really pissed. Yeah I always heard "bars don't salute bars," but I'll still salute 'em anyway. That's how it works in the Navy. In Pensacola we don't havy any FAIP-types for navs, so all the instructors are O-3 and up. Obviously, if you're a student, you salute the O-3 instructors. But since I've gotten my wings, more than one Navy LT has told me not to salute..."We're both JO's, man." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F16Deuce Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Pulling rank in the gym...awesome... I thought it was tradition that 2Lt's don't salute 1Lt's....I guess that's not common knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 With regards to the Army, it ain't just the PT gear either. True. Item one on a looooong list of "heritage". HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Pulling rank in the gym...awesome... I thought it was tradition that 2Lt's don't salute 1Lt's....I guess that's not common knowledge? Guess not. I thought it was common knowledge too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fogo Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Guess not. I thought it was common knowledge too! "2" ... until an email was sent out at the squadron saying 2LTs should be saluting 1LTs. How many power tripping 1LTs does it take to get tradition changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHS17 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 and this guy who is decked out in USAFA clothing is... I suppose he is going out on a limb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abmwaldo Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 If this guy ever makes it through pilot training hopefully someone in a LPA somewhere explains life to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddller Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Probably a dumb question for most of you, but my casual buddies and I were talking about this... what is the "LPA"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boom Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Probably a dumb question for most of you, but my casual buddies and I were talking about this... what is the "LPA"? http://www.dosgringosrocks.com/audio/DOS_G..._in_the_LPA.m3u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Probably a dumb question for most of you, but my casual buddies and I were talking about this... what is the "LPA"? Lt. Protection Association, from what I understand its just all the LT's in a squadron banding together to not get screwed over (to much at least) someone once used an analogy on this board that likened it to joining a gang once your in prison so you don't become someones girlfriend. Someone that knows more will likely chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abmwaldo Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Lt. Protection Association, from what I understand its just all the LT's in a squadron banding together to not get screwed over (to much at least) someone once used an analogy on this board that likened it to joining a gang once your in prison so you don't become someones girlfriend. Someone that knows more will likely chime in. The first rule of the LPA... never talk about the LPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 someone once used an analogy on this board that likened it to joining a gang once your in prison so you don't become someones girlfriend. No need to expand from there. That pretty much sums it up. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brabus Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I thought it was tradition that 2Lt's don't salute 1Lt's....I guess that's not common knowledge? So far I haven't ran into a single 1Lt who gave me shit or even seemed pissed when I didn't salute them...except for the FAIPs, I'll salute them until they tell me otherwise. But another stud or the finance Lt, there's no rank among LTs, thieves, etc. I know it happens, but are you guys seeing this a ton, or just isolated cases? B/c regardless of what some base email says, I still feel like it's common knowledge that there's no saluting 1LTs (except if they have wings). Just my observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I thought it was tradition that 2Lt's don't salute 1Lt's....I guess that's not common knowledge? Guess not: while 2Lt's have probably saluted with indifference for years, it's certainly no tradition that I'm aware of. Maybe, in the Age of SNAPs, revisionist history took over, and all the things that these folks wanted to have changed were suddently "tradition". I swear, some of you make it sound like rendering a salute is just downright painful, or causes you to feel low self-esteem. I just don't get it. If the salute is appropriate, render it. I've seen a 4-star get saluted by a 3-star. And they are pretty good buds. So why is it that I shouldn't have saluted a 1Lt when I was a 2Lt? If it eats you up this much to have to salute a 1Lt, then go join IBM. No saluting required there. I know. I worked there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Guess not: while 2Lt's have probably saluted with indifference for years, it's certainly no tradition that I'm aware of. Maybe, in the Age of SNAPs, revisionist history took over, and all the things that these folks wanted to have changed were suddently "tradition". I swear, some of you make it sound like rendering a salute is just downright painful, or causes you to feel low self-esteem. I just don't get it. If the salute is appropriate, render it. I've seen a 4-star get saluted by a 3-star. And they are pretty good buds. So why is it that I shouldn't have saluted a 1Lt when I was a 2Lt? If it eats you up this much to have to salute a 1Lt, then go join IBM. No saluting required there. I know. I worked there. Are you a pilot? Im sure you are, but just within the OPS community I have seen a different attitude than in the REMF community. I guess as pilots we just dont get worked up about such SNAP things. Im not against saluting, just retarded salutes (as a 2LT saluting a 1LT is) Edited June 23, 2007 by Stiffler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) Are you a pilot? Im sure you are, but just within the OPS community I have seen a different attitude than in the REMF community. I guess as pilots we just dont get worked up about such SNAP things. Im not against saluting, just retarded salutes (as a 2LT saluting a 1LT is) What's "the OPS community" in your opinion? Does it include MX? Intel? The admin staff in your flying squadron? Just curious how you delineate. Retarded salutes? Your opinion is noted, but irrelevant. Either abide by customs-and-courtesies, as they are done throughout the US military, or admit you won't 'cause you "think it's gay". If American POW's can show the professional respect to their captors in a POW camp by saluting officers that outrank them, then I'll salute those that outrank me. How about saluting a Sergeant? Is that ok? I did that once when I met him outdoors and he was wearing the Medal of Honor. I know that many officers now refer to their 1-striper Airman as "dude", and "homey", and by their first name. I see it all the time. Change of culture, I suppose. And I guess part of that culture is to get a skin as thin as rice paper, and an "it's all about me" attitude. That's what this is all about, isn't it? "I don't want to salute [pick your category] because it's retarded/gay/dumb." "It's all about what I want." Oh,... the earlier comment about how they wouldn't salute a 1Lt, unless he had wings: YGBSM. Edited June 23, 2007 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxhead Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I am going with Huggy on this one. The "SNAPness" is the whining about saluting...not the other way around. I saluted 1Lts when I was a 2Lt. An earlier post summed up my opinoin...when I was an Airman, that would have bugged me to see two officers that could not follow the most basic customs and courtesies. I would have lost respect for them as military leaders right there. I honestly never heard of this "tradition" until I got my commission. I usually don't correct anyone on this topic because it would be like going to Greece with a "Turkey Rocks" t-shirt on and trying to convince them that is an OK thing to think. If I focused on the little stuff that others do that bugs me, I would not have time for my job. I just do my part, do what is right and press. That's what non-SNAPs do. SNAPs whine about this stuff and try to justify their general lack of military bearing by saying that the issue is "gay" or whatever else they say to make themselves feel special. On the point of the thread, that guy was an idiot and is the other extreme that is just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiffler Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 All opinions are noted and respected. Especially about saluting a Medal of Honor winner who's a sergeant. I was in the gym (YMCA) chatting with a guy who i found out was a MOH winner in Nam. I immediately saluted him, civilian clothes and all, in the middle of a gym locker room. Brought a tear to his eye. So dont label me a snap because I believe that a LT is a LT. Thats how I was taught. Maybe Im confusing a Guard thing with Active Duty, but in my limited AD experience I was briefed to not salute 1LT's as well. Whatever. Fun conversation but nothing to get emotional about and compare with winners of the Medal of Honor. Side note: I define "Ops community" as those in "Ops." Simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Before you guys start going all "SNAPs invented Lieutenants not saluting each other", I'll pass along that my father, who was a USAF pilot during the Korean War, told me about the "Rank among Lieutenants..." bit when I was just a little kid. So, I guess you'll have to consider a Korean-era B-29 pilot a SNAP, because that "tradition" of Lts not saluting each other has apparently been around the USAF since about 1955. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimmyH Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 The ID card says LT on it. Not 2Lt, not 1Lt. They do that for a reason. That reason may or may not be they hate making new ID cards after just two years, but whatever. That ID card made many gate guards in Pensacola think I was an O-3. Receding hairline didn't help but you'd think having less than a 40 inch waist would be a clue..? (I keed, I keed). Also, never as an 1Lt was I called "sir" and saluted by 2Lts more than the short period of time between getting my wings and going to Altus. Apparently UPT studs salute wings, not rank? Hacker is dead on w/ his "Rank among Lieutenants" reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Oh,... the earlier comment about how they wouldn't salute a 1Lt, unless he had wings: YGBSM. I think Brabus is at UPT right now...that would probably explain that comment he made. 1Lt + wings = FAIP Here's my opinion on the whole saluting Lt's BS: LTs LTs is dumb. We are not the Army. Oh yeah, wouldn't a SNAP be the guy that demands the 2Lt to him because he's a 1Lt? Isn't that being a little "sensative"? Either way, can we all just get back to talking about this USAFA grad dork that was at the gym? Anyone else have any LTs pulling rank stories? They crack me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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