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ATIS Flight Lead

ATIS

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Posted (edited)

IRT the Glaser....not the most accurate.  For a house gun putting the first round (hopefully) center mass at 10-25 yards (doorway, across a room), GEFGW (Good Enough For Govt Work....which in the old days was a good reference, which i'm invoking here). 

Make sure whatever type of rounds you use in your gun, buy extras and go to the range and shoot those exact loads though the gun.  Mixing different round in an auto can be tricky when it comes to feeding.   Only way to know for sure is to shoot the real rounds stacked the way they will be in your grab/go kit. 

 

FYI:  .357 Mag through a Model 19-3 short barrel not advised.  While the gun is rated for the round...it hurts you, the gun, and I think the tunnel of flame out the front of the gun will get to the tgt before the round will. 

 

Cheers

ATIS

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Lawman Gray Beard

Lawman

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I'm considering an X95. Never owned a bull pup, but I find the concept intriguing.

image.jpeg

It's kinda a weird gun idea.

The whole purpose of a bullpup is lets get a long barrel on a short rifle, but the trigger group on a bullpup will never be as tight as on a standard rifle.

Flip side is ok great well long barrel on a short gun so good for tight quarters type fight... Well they seem to be a lot more controllable under high rates of fire, but they are significantly less easy to reload fast ala combat load on say an AR pattern rifle. And you basically have to come off target to reach the mag well especially wearing body armor and all the other stuff you would want in that kind of fight. So they don't really have an advantage there either.

Literally the only thing they do better than a regular rifle is keep velocity and maintain a sight picture/cheek weld to get a shorter rifle to go around corners. So great if your fighting in a house against somebody wearing armor, but not good for the >200m fight and not good for volume of continuous fire.

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tac airlifter Gray Beard

tac airlifter

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Lawman, have you actually taken a course with a bullpup or been trained on them?  I ask because training might assist surmounting the obstacles you mention.  The Aussies seem to reload their AUGs at the same speed our guys do, as does the IDF.  So I'm wondering if the idea of faster reloads using conventional designs is more a training issue than indicative of inherent design superiority.  I don't know.

besides, I'm not planning to deploy with it.  It's for fun shooting with my son and maybe HD..... Hopefully a full speed combat reload isn't required for either scenario!  Also, my "full speed combat reload" is probably slower than my "which end do I stick in?  Hmmm I wonder if it's all the way seated.... Oops, guess not"  range reload speed.

its supposed to have a 4-5 lbs trigger pull from a factory upgrade, it's one of the reasons I waited for this vice buying the Tavor.  And my son can shoulder it, whereas he struggles with my other rifles (although I did buy an AR pistol for him, he of course never "shoulders" it as the ATF would not approve).  Also, at least agree that it looks like fun!  I need you to help me justify this!

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hispeed7721 Gray Beard

hispeed7721

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Along with the many AR and similar type rifles in my safe sits an AUG, a Tavor, and a FS200. I am not a competitive shooter nor am I a doorkicker, but I have been shooting a long time with a wide variety of firearms and would consider myself competent with at least what I own.

The difference in speed at which I can reload an AR vs a bull pup is not any amount of time that I consider crucial. There are times that I have a delay on my AR, there are times I have a delay on one of the bull pups. Granted I've never fired them in a no kidding HD/SD scenario, but I think the real thing would affect my capabilities equally on either platform.

BL : the gun(s) are significantly more capable than I am, and I would very much agree with tac airlifter that it's a training issue, not a design or functionality issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Lawman Gray Beard

Lawman

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Lawman, have you actually taken a course with a bullpup or been trained on them? I ask because training might assist surmounting the obstacles you mention. The Aussies seem to reload their AUGs at the same speed our guys do, as does the IDF. So I'm wondering if the idea of faster reloads using conventional designs is more a training issue than indicative of inherent design superiority. I don't know.

besides, I'm not planning to deploy with it. It's for fun shooting with my son and maybe HD..... Hopefully a full speed combat reload isn't required for either scenario! Also, my "full speed combat reload" is probably slower than my "which end do I stick in? Hmmm I wonder if it's all the way seated.... Oops, guess not" range reload speed.

its supposed to have a 4-5 lbs trigger pull from a factory upgrade, it's one of the reasons I waited for this vice buying the Tavor. And my son can shoulder it, whereas he struggles with my other rifles (although I did buy an AR pistol for him, he of course never "shoulders" it as the ATF would not approve). Also, at least agree that it looks like fun! I need you to help me justify this!

Oh I've trained with them. FN2000 specifically.

I don't assume anybody will be as fast or as capable as some guy that runs his 3 gun rig 3 times a week or anything. What I've seen is average shooter with average training means lesser results for an unfamiliar platform, and unless all you train with is bullpups (Israel, Aussie, etc) it's gonna be a weird gun to train to. Like I said too there is a big difference between using a standard pattern rifle like a AR/AK/FAL/etc and a bullpup while wearing body armor or an LBV with mags and other stuff. It's not to say it can't be done, just that there is a reason that you don't see a lot of SWAT teams or better yet CIF teams (who can use whatever the hell they want) going to full barrel bullpups over SBR AR pattern rifles. The common bad habit I saw was guys raising the barrel to get better angle on the mag well, which means in a combat load (pulling a half empty mag with 1 in the chamber just in case) you are now pointing your weapon at the ceiling at not at the threat.

Like I said it's not that they have some sort of glaring negative, more that they don't offer any real advantage outside this one particular of keeping high velocity (long barrel) in the 100-200 meter fight when compared to an SBR. It's the unfamiliarity to the design and the lack of available parts or gunsmiths that really turns me off to the commanding price they typically require. I mean looking on a strictly dollar amount getting an alright AUG or other type rifle starts you into the excellent AR class of rifles. For pre bans you're getting into carry it daily life on the line quality contractor rifles.

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Hopefulflyer389 Flight Lead

Hopefulflyer389

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On April 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, busdriver said:

There's nothing wrong with the P320 or an XD, if you like em you're good to go.

If you're into a hammer fired gun give CZ and the other Sig models a look too.

Shot many and felt most comfortable with the CZ P09. Shot it. Loved it. Bought it. 

image.jpeg

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busdriver Gray Beard

busdriver

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4 hours ago, Hopefulflyer389 said:

the CZ P09. 

Looks used, yes?  If it is used I'd consider replacing the trigger return spring.

I've broken two on my P-09, one was because I bent it too many times screwing with the trigger pull weight, the other just wore out.  It broke around 4000 rounds, probably somewhere around 25k trigger pulls.  So it isn't something to really worry about, just something to toss into the preventative maintenance list.  Also, the reduced power springs from Cajun Gun Works seem to last a bit longer than stock.

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Hopefulflyer389 Flight Lead

Hopefulflyer389

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20 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Looks used, yes?  If it is used I'd consider replacing the trigger return spring.

I've broken two on my P-09, one was because I bent it too many times screwing with the trigger pull weight, the other just wore out.  It broke around 4000 rounds, probably somewhere around 25k trigger pulls.  So it isn't something to really worry about, just something to toss into the preventative maintenance list.  Also, the reduced power springs from Cajun Gun Works seem to last a bit longer than stock.

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to get some coming to keep on hand. Yes, it's used with about 600 rounds through it. It was a good price and had the sights on it that I wanted.  

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