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That being said, what are you thoughts on the new variety of piston driven AR's out there? I know each is different depending in the company, but in theory it seems to be offering the best of both worlds. Accuracy/modularity of the AR platform with a more reliable operating system (AK). I have an XCR already and am not as impressed as I thought I would be, but I think thats on me for buying that particular rifle. I'm thinking about dropping some serious cash on an LMT piston AR and would liek any thoughts you guys have.

They will discover issues with the piston set-up here soon. I went to an AR class and the two guys to my left were both running LWRC piston guns. One worked and the other one didn't. 40 years has allowed folks to find all the issues with the gas guns so there is a well known set of remedies. The piston guns are so new that darn near every issue is a new one. Look at the bolts on piston guns - they have beefed up the end that goes in the receiver extension to prevent bolt bounce which was never an issue with the gas guns. My friend had an LWRC with a 10.5" stainless barrel - after 50 rounds it would choke so bad he had to tear it apart and scrub the chamber. So the whole piston thing is probably a solution to problem that will only really be cured by a new rifle not a new operating system. All that being said - I would probably buy the LMT piston set-up before many of the rest. I've been running an MRP for over 5 years now and they work great. LMT is a great company that does their homework before they release any products - it takes time but their stuff is really well executed when it is released. HK would be another interesting piston upper to have but I'm not about to pay $3500 plus for an upper alone... Rumor has it that they'll be release an American made version soon.

I also think there is a lot more to the AK than just pure numbers. Sure, there have been between 50 and 100 million AKs built. They are cheap and reliable... Not to mention the USSR practically gave them away to their favored friends. Then they forced them down the throats of their satellite countries. That is one of the reasons the AK users outnumber M16 users in the world. Heck, the much vaunted Israelis use M16s - but that's probably more of a function of US aid than anything - very similar to the Soviet example above.

The M16 got off to a rough start in the Vietnam war. First - the bean counters decided to change the type of powder used in the ammo causing them to malfunction more. Second - no chromelining of the chamber or barrel. Third - no training and no cleaning kits. Fourth - Eugene Stoner designed the mag to be a disposable item - when you ran out of ammo you got a new fully loaded mag instead of ammo on stripper clips or cardboard boxes. PMAGs are probably one of the best mags out there now - and they are reasonably priced too. The HK mags are overrated - my Border Patrol friend had a 6 or 8 new ones he took to a SWAT school class. He was impressed with them until the instructor told him that they would be worthless by the end of the week - and they were...

BF

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I hadn't noticed any difference in bolt size. I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about re: bolt bounce. A description would help.

I do know that the piston guns have a problem with the BCG tilting due to the moment created by the piston on the "gas key." HK solved it by adding pads to the aft lower end of the bolt carrier.

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Guest soflguy
Took the XD9 Tac to the range for the first time this morning. Wasn't there long, but put 6 mags through it. For someone who only shoots a couple times a month and using a new gun for the very first time; I shot fairly well. Groupings were moderate, but everything was in a good spot on the head or torso. By the last couple magazines it really began to feel natural and was going where I wanted to.

The wife (who had only shot a revolver previously) put a magazine through it and was even fairly accurate with it. So far so good on my XD experience.

As well, for any of you XD or other polymer owners, what are your cleaning tips? I've yet to own a polymer. Is there anything you have noticed does or doesnt work? Will your standard oils and solvents harm the polymer? What about gun scrubber? I heard they made a synthetic safe version, so I am assuming the standard stuff is bad for the polymer.

Any tips are welcome.

I know for both my Glocks and all 3 of my dads, we have used nothing but regular solvent/cleaner without any negative effects. Don't know about the XD, but I'd imagine it would be the same thing. Hopefully it doesn't hurt it, or one day I could be in trouble! :M16:

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Also, I've also completely stripped and reblued some of my shotguns, and it's the most even cold-blue I've used, great for touchups.

Care to post details of the rebluing process? I've got a couple that I was going to take to a gunsmith (cause i thought I'd F it up)- how were your results?

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I hadn't noticed any difference in bolt size. I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about re: bolt bounce. A description would help.

I do know that the piston guns have a problem with the BCG tilting due to the moment created by the piston on the "gas key." HK solved it by adding pads to the aft lower end of the bolt carrier.

You answered your own question - some people call that tilting bolt bounce. And look at the end of the bolt carrier - I've see several different methods to keep everything in line back there - some have enlarged that whole part of the bolt and others have just added a couple pads in strategic locations.

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Is anybody a member of a private gun range? I'm looking into ranges in the area and found a really nice one that you can shoot any handgun or rifle indoors and is incredibly clean. They do a members discount on ammo and guns(haven't checked prices to see if the discount is actually a deal or not) and unlimited lane usage. But its a one time $350 fee plus $27/month for membership. The membership is transferable so when I PCS I guess I could sell it to somebody and get back a portion of that $350 but it's not guaranteed.

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Is anybody a member of a private gun range?

I'm trying. There's one literally FOUR minutes' drive from my house... 25yd indoor pistol (open 24hrs!), 25, 100, and 200yd outdoor rifle/pistol ranges (with covered firing lines), trap and skeet, and an archery course. Price is very good IMO. Their website says they're maxed-out at 1100 members, but I cannot recall a time when I saw more than 10 cars in the parking lot at one time. Unfortunately, they're not answering the phone right now...

There's another private club within 20min of me, but that one has less range-space, for more money and "volunteer" time. But their website doesn't talk about being maxed-out, so that may be where I end up.

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Took the XD9 Tac to the range for the first time this morning. Wasn't there long, but put 6 mags through it. For someone who only shoots a couple times a month and using a new gun for the very first time; I shot fairly well. Groupings were moderate, but everything was in a good spot on the head or torso. By the last couple magazines it really began to feel natural and was going where I wanted to.

The wife (who had only shot a revolver previously) put a magazine through it and was even fairly accurate with it. So far so good on my XD experience.

As well, for any of you XD or other polymer owners, what are your cleaning tips? I've yet to own a polymer. Is there anything you have noticed does or doesnt work? Will your standard oils and solvents harm the polymer? What about gun scrubber? I heard they made a synthetic safe version, so I am assuming the standard stuff is bad for the polymer.

Any tips are welcome.

First, congrats on the XD9.

For cleaning I have been using CLP on my XD45 for the last year and a half with gun butter in the slide rails. The polymer is pretty damn strong and my XD owners manual doesn't say anything that I can remember about what not to use for cleaning. No issues to date. I am sure M2 can go much more in depth. One of the best XD resources out there is www.xdtalk.com for ammo. cleaning or aftermarket gear.

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and a Savage model 24E (One of my favorite guns, it's an old over/under double with .22 rifled barrel over a 20 gauge shotgun. If you miss that varmint with the .22, you can flip the switch and smash him with the .20ga!).

I've got the same gun in .410. It needs rebluing too. I was thinking of sending it to the gunsmith for the reblue and the .22 doesn't fire every time. The firing pin makes, IMO, descent contact- but it's 50/50 on the shot. I need to buy some new .22 shells to rule out ammo first. I've been shooting off the same buckets I bought in 93. They shoot fine in my other 22, but the savage could be a little more finicky. It is a squirrel slaying machine and just pretty damn fun to shoot. .410s are a little pricey though.

Thanks for the detailed description on the process. It's something I always though I'd try. I've got an old POS mossberg 16 ga bolt. WTF do you use a 16 ga bolt for? beats me, it was my dad's. I think I might try on that one first. Anything would be an improvement in its case. Now if I could just find a way to make it into a pump or auto.....

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Random question, but does anyone know the correct location for a Romanian RPK bipod. Every one I can find on the web has the bipod near the muzzle, but I'm looking at one that has the bipod located just behind the front of the gas port. Anyone know anything about the Romanian RPKs in general (vs Yugo etc...). Any help would be much appreciated!

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Guest AceTomatoCo
I just bought a Remington 700 .308 and need a decent scope for it. Don't want to spend a fortune on it but don't want to get something I'll soon want to upgrade either. Any suggestions?

I've had decent luck with BSA, decent prices and ok optics, just know your getting what you paid for it.

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Guest NotAPilot

Just get a Leupold. Yes it may cost more than the gun but it is worth every penny. I have a 3x9-50 VX-II on my .300 mag and it is awesome.

Edited by NotAPilot
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Hacker,

I took some advice you offered my way a few months ago and went out and bought myself a 1911 to celebrate Inauguration Day. I picked up a RIA Tactical from my favorite local gun shop in Coeur d' Alene, ID. I got it to feed the 1911 bug while I save for a SA Operator or Kimber Warrior and to customize as I see fit. I'l get some pics up once I find a pic site I like and can use. I am taking it shooting tomorrow after class and will post my thoughts afterward.

So far it seems to be well made. Slide to frame is very tight, made the Kimber on the shelf net to it look like an old AK. No rattles at all. Trigger breaks cleanly at 4.5lbs with minimal creep at the front end of it. Ambi-safety is locked on tight and is very crisp snapping it on and off. The parkerizing is very uniform over all treated parts (everything but the Full Length Guide Rod, to be replaced with a GI style at a later date.) Came with 2 Novak Mags and a locking hard case. Some machining marks on the interior of the slide but are all very smooth.

There are only 2 things I don't like about it. The grips suck, they will be replaced with some Aluma-Grips and a Techwell. The sights, Novak Combat sights, are all black and so until I can get some tritium put on there I am painting the back edge of the front sight blade white so I can see the damn thing.

This will not replace my well used XD45 as a carry gun but more as range gun and secondary carry piece when I need something slimmer to CC.

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Just get a Leupold. Yes it may cost more than the gun but it is worth every penny. I have a 3x9-50 VX-II on my .300 mag and it is awesome.

Completely agree. I have a VXII 3-9x40 mounted on a Rem 700 30.06. It's an awesome combo for a decent amount less than you'd spend on a Sako or something similar. I took an elk in Dec at 315 yds w/ OTC Federal ammo. I realize the scope/mounts will cost you half of what you paid for the gun, but the quality is far worth it. I assume you'll be using this rifle for hunting. You owe it to yourself and the animal to make a clean shot every time...something that is questionable w/ cheap scopes. Leupold is a great company whose products will last your entire life. My R700/Leupold has been through some harsh terrain, below zero temps, snow storms, rain storms, etc. The scope has yet to lose zero and the rifle is as accurate as any shooter will ever need (unless you're one of those comp guys who wants .00001 MOA).

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It's already started...

On January 6th, Congressman Rush (D) of Illinois (where else?) introduced the Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (H.R. 45). The introduction to this bill states the intent of the legislations is "to provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes." As of the writing of this article, this bill has been referred to the Committee on the Judiciary. This article reviews the content of the Act and provides commentary on various portions of the act, which violate logic, individual rights, State's rights, and the separation of powers. This article also speaks to some areas of HR 45 that fall within the purview of the Federal government.

This was a good counter to the proposed bill...

Violations of Logic

In a somewhat standard political maneuver, sections of the HR 45 are clearly an emotional appeal to the American people and their representatives. First, statistics regarding the use of firearms in homicides, suicides, and non-fatal violent injuries are pointed out. Second, the stated purpose of the bill is "to protect the public against the unreasonable risk of injury and death associated with the unrecorded sale or transfer of qualifying firearms to criminals . . . to restrict the availability of qualifying firearms to criminals . . . to facilitate the tracing of qualifying firearms used in crime . . ." What the author of the bill fails to point to is the staggering amount of research that suggests that gun control laws do not reduce gun crime and may even be linked to an increase in such crime. The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is a non-profit, non-partisan group dedicated to research on public policy. The findings of this group on gun control are clear: Gun control laws are ineffective in reducing violent crime. Two reasons for this ineffectiveness are often cited by gun rights activists. First, crime is committed by criminals who, by definition, are not concerned with adhering to the law when obtaining a firearm. Second, when crime victims are law abiding citizens, they will not have a firearm to be used in self-defense; essentially, leaving the law abiding victim a sitting duck for the gun wielding criminal.

The second assault on the emotions comes with the story of Blair Holt for whom this bill is named. This young man acted with a heroism seldom seen among adults, much less 16-year-old boys and was shot while bodily protecting a classmate from a shooter who had boarded the public bus the students were riding on. This young man should certainly be memorialized for his actions, but not by attaching his name to a piece of legislation that is not likely to reduce gun crime. Again, criminals do not care about the legality of their tools.

Finally, part of the stated purpose of HR 45 is "to facilitate the tracing of qualifying firearms used in crime by Federal and State law enforcement agencies." As stated above, criminals are not likely to be using firearms obtained through legal channels, making this statement somewhat laughable. Second, HR 45 does nothing to protect law abiding citizens from law enforcement agencies invading their privacy using the information gathered under HR 45.

Violations of Individual Rights

HR 45 threatens individual rights, including those protected by the Second, Fourth, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments. In addition, it proposes amendments that remove logical protections that currently exist in the United States Code.

The fourth amendment protects individuals against searches unless there is evidence that such search will find evidence of a crime, in such cases a judge will issue a search warrant. The only exceptions to this are if an individual consents to the search, if there is a crime in progress or about to occur, subsequent to a legitimate arrest, or in extreme conditions where quick action is required to assist an injured person or apprehend a dangerous person. HR 45 clearly violates this amendment by giving the Attorney General the right to "enter any place where firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held for distribution in commerce and inspect those areas where the products are manufactured, stored, or held".

A CDC training document provides a clear description of the constitutional guidelines for seizing private property:

There are clear constitutional guidelines for seizing private property. If the property is seized and destroyed to protect the public health and safety, then the constitution does not require the government to pay compensation for the property. The owner of the property is entitled to a hearing to determine if the seizure was lawful, but this hearing may be provided after the property has been seized and destroyed. If the seizure was unlawful, the government must pay compensation.

Under HR 45, an individual who owns a firearm prior to the time that HR 45 is enacted has 2 years to become licensed. If that individual were to fail to become licensed, they would face the choice of giving up their private property or becoming a criminal. In my mind, this amounts to the government forcing an individual to dispose of private property and amounts to seizure by proxy. If a law abiding citizen is in possession of a firearm and is not a threat to the public, then such seizure is unconstitutional.

Similarly, HR 45 allows the Attorney General to "prohibit the sale or transfer of any firearm that is found to be transferred or distributed in violation of HR 45, an amendment to HR 45, or a regulation issued under HR 45." So, if an individual legally purchases a firearm and it later comes out that said firearm was at one time in violation of HR 45, then that person is prevented from selling their personal property. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment s protect the right to property and, traditionally, property rights have included the right to transfer property of other individuals. HR 45 interferes with that right by prohibiting an individual from transferring their personal property, in this case a firearm, because it was used for illegal purposes before coming into their possession.

When the Brady Bill was enacted in 1993, it specifically included language prohibiting the creation of a gun registration database. This language was codified into law as part of section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code. The logic behind this language is succinctly described on the Keep and Bear Arms website:

The rationale was that if John Doe were cleared during the background check to purchase a firearm, that was what was important, and the government did not need to keep a list of who owned what. That information would still be recorded in the usual manner in the dealer's records, so it was available if a gun was found at a crime scene, because the manufacturer's serial number would trace it through all levels of sale until it wound up at the dealer's, and upon checking the dealer's records, the individual who purchased the gun could be identified. Thus, the government would have the ability to trace firearms to their owner, yet would not be able to assemble a hit list' of gun owners in general to go after . . .

HR 45 requires the Attorney General to establish and maintain a database of information that includes the name, address, and firearm license number of any individual receiving a firearm. In addition, this database must include the manufacturer, model, serial number, and date of receipt of the firearms received by each individual. As it is so clearly described above, this information is not necessary to trace firearms used in crimes. It is only necessary to create "hit lists" of the individuals who own certain numbers or types of firearms. Perhaps this sound paranoid; unfortunately, it is not. Keep and Bear Arms notes that:

since the [brady Bill] passed, several states have retroactively banned classes of firearms (without even presenting any evidence to support a need to do so for any public good), and confiscated them based on registration lists. Additionally, the federal government, in blatant defiance of the Brady law's clause requiring immediate erasure of their information once the sale is approved (again, the dealer retains the information, should a legitimate need arise for it at any later date), has been openly admitting that they have created a computerized registry of gun owners.

Violations of State's Rights

The term "State's Rights" refers to those areas that are the right of the individual States to legislate. Essentially, any area not specifically addressed in the Constitution is assumed to be left to the discretion of the states. HR 45 violates these rights in several areas.

HR 45 states that the manufacture, distribution, and importation of firearms is inherently commercial in nature and that this commerce regularly takes place across State boundaries, making it a type of interstate commerce. The bill goes on to say that the impracticality of separating which firearms are destined for interstate commerce and which are destined for intrastate commerce will result in the "incidental regulation of intrastate commerce". I agree that the manufacture, distribution, and importation of firearms (or any other product) is commercial in nature and that this commerce often results in firearms crossing State lines. I believe that the final assertion that it is impossible to separate interstate and intrastate commerce is nothing more than a poorly veiled excuse for violating State's rights. While the same firearm may be involved in an interstate transaction at one time and in an intrastate transaction at another time, this does not mean that it is impossible to separate the two. Anyone transferring ownership of a firearm to another entity is required to know who they are transferring ownership to. As a result, it is actually quite easy to determine whether a transaction is intrastate and subject to State regulation or interstate and subject to Federal regulation.

The bill's author goes on to say that Federal gun control laws are "in the national interest" and "within the role of the Federal Government". First, I have difficulty understanding how it is in the national interest to pass legislation is at best ineffective and at worst detrimental to public safety (see NCPA findings cited above). Second, the claim that it is "within the role of Federal Government" to impose gun control legislation on the States is also inaccurate. In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled that there was not a substantial enough link between gun control and interstate commerce to give the Federal government the right to legislate gun control on a national level. Furthermore, the decision also noted that the definition of interstate commerce that the Federal Government was using in this case constituted a "blank check" for Federal legislation in areas historically under state control (see the full text of this decision). Later in the text of HR 45, the author states that State firearm licensing laws will only be valid if they meet or exceed the requirements put forth under HR 45, a clear violation of the Supreme Court ruling described above.

Violations of Separation of Powers

A final class of violation is the violation of the sole right of the Legislative Branch to make laws. In HR 45, there are sections that allow the Attorney General (a member of the Judicial Branch) to determine the topics that will be included on an examination that is required for obtaining a firearms license and to create licensing regulations under HR 45. In addition, HR 45 also prohibits ownership of a firearm without such a license. Thus, HR 45 provides the Attorney General with the power to determine who will and will not be legally permitted to own a firearm, effectively creating legislation in this area.

Violation of Expectations

There is one part of HR 45 that is a reasonable use of government power and I would be remiss if I failed to mention this. In addition to keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals, this bill has the purpose of keeping firearms out of the hands of youth and includes sections regarding to the secure storage of firearms where there is the reasonable expectation that a child might be on the premises where the firearm is stored. I grew up in a house where guns were a part of life; however, these guns were stored unloaded and, to this day, I cannot tell you where the ammunition was stored. In an ideal world, all adults would be as wise as my parents without government interference; however, the fact is that many adults are not. I believe that the role of Federal government should be limited to protecting the people. Legislation that requires the secure storage of firearms so that children cannot access them falls well within the boundaries of this protection; however, this bit of reason does not make HR 45 a viable or Constitutional piece of legislation.

While HR 45 may have been conceived with the best of intentions, this legislation is fundamentally flawed on several levels. First, it violates logic by attempting to fix a problem with methods that have been historically ineffective and even counterproductive. Second, it violates individual and State's rights. Third, it violates the separation of powers between the various branches of government. (Source)

The important thing to remember is that the fight to defend our Second Amendment Right is on! Don't be lulled by the lack of an immediate attack, the administration is lining up to go after one of our most precious and privileged rights as American citizens, and they shouldn't be allowed to do so without a fight!

Cheers! M2

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Amen Brother! The fight is on, and to me it's more significant than any of the fiscal concerns we're currently facing or likely to face. Check out this video. It's kind of long, but anyone who's lived in the UK knows how true it is. Please spread the word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

Edited by zrooster99
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As M2 and others have stated in the past; now more than ever it is important to be an NRA member if you want to defend your Second Amendment rights.

I can't imagine many of us who post on this thread aren't, but if you are not: Do so now!

The NRA even has a program right now where current members have donated money to provide for a free first year of full membership for military members.

There a lot of things we as citizens need to stand up for right now; this is surely one of the most significant.

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