Ever bust a checkride?

[sputnik]

. In fact, in the C-17, they're handed out like candy.

Are you talking in general, on checkrides or only for airdrop?

Maybe I've just been lucky (or oblivious) but I haven't seen much (outside of airdrop).

[Guest Boom]

That evaluator didn't like you. That is about the most chickenshit bust I've heard of in a while (provided your O2 was in 5 feet). I think your evaluator was abused as a child.

The evaluator is a known douche bag. Here's why he hooked me.

11-2KC-135 Vol 3

Crewmembers occupying or transiting the cargo compartment will have a portable oxygen

walk-around bottle with quick-don mask/helmet, or Emergency Passenger Oxygen System

(EPOS) readily available for use in the event of an emergency.

11-202 Vol 3

R - Have oxygen readily available. Individuals required to have oxygen readily available

must have a functioning system and mask located within arms reach, and the regulator must

be set to 100 percent and ON (if the system contains an operator adjustable regulator).

11-2KC-135 Vol 2 - Boom Operator Checkrides

Area 4, Safety Consciousness (Critical).

Q Aware of and complied with all safety factors required for safe aircraft operation and mission accomplishment.

U Not aware of or did not comply with all safety factors required for safe aircraft operation or mission accomplishment.

Operated aircraft or equipment in a dangerous manner.

Area 5, Judgment/Compliance (Critical).

Q Prepared and completed mission in compliance with existing regulations and directives. Demonstrated knowledge

of operating procedures and restrictions. Decisions were logical and did not jeopardize or complicate the situation.

U Unaware of established procedures and/or could not locate them in the appropriate publication in a timely manner.

Failed to comply with a procedure which could, or actually did jeopardize safety or successful mission completion.

Consistently made poor decisions or made a major error in judgment. Flight objectives were not attained due to

poor decision.

Notice how there's no Q-, just Q or U since it's a critical item. Yeah, he's a douchebag but it was a good "learning" experience.

[LJ Driver]

Always, Always follow AFI, Local, and TO guidance....know the difference between Technique and Procedure.

On a checkride, maybe. It depends.

Otherwise, I disagree. Sometimes the AFI is wrong. Sometimes we need to exercise our authority as aircraft commanders and experienced aviators to get important shit done. Sometimes we need to request forgiveness rather then permission.

That's called judgement. And that's why I fly airplanes for a living.

Edited November 26, 2008 by LJ Driver

[Spoo]

Ah, memories... I hooked my Mid-phase in the Tweet when I forgot to retract the speedbreak during one practice TP stall recovery. Didn't even know I did it. Set up for the next one and retracted it that time.

Favorite part was how the IP/EP let me fly the rest of my relatively flawless ride without saying a word. Got into debrief and he told me how awesome the ride was. Proceeded to go down the list, grading me as he went. Got to TP stalls..."Now here, you see, you forgot to retract the speed break. I'm afraid I'm going to have to bust you." I honestly remember thinking: "Wow, A-hole, thanks. Good one, you really got me." Followed by: "You know, that thing flew fine at 12,000' and mil power. What's the big deal?"

He was an angry non-vol guy who couldn't wait to get back to the -141. Damn I'm old. This sucks.

[Spoo]

I got a Q-2 once, and to many that was questionable...the new 202V3 had come out and I changed out the old with the new, but since I was in my car at the time, I just put the old in the front cover pocket of my pubs binder, and forgot it was there (even after the page count I didn't notice it). I was Q-2'd because the evaluator said I could get "confused" on which pub to reference. Again, it kept me from a really good checkride...it was my instructor pilot checkride and I probably would have gotten at least a Q-1 with excellent in the remarks. I had brought my A-game to that checkride and I thought I did a really good job...so did the evaluator, who told me my performance kept him from Q-3ing me. Whatever. Queepy stuff!!!

OH GOD! There's volcanic activity up ahead! What do we do?!? WHICH VERSION OF THIS DATED PUB IS THE MOST CURRENT!?!?

Wow, that's really weak. Explain to me which dire emergency or extreme flight planning session would have you totally task saturated, furiously looking though pubs, and leave you confused over which version of 202v3 to reference. True, there are some pretty dramatic changes from version to version. What...does the old one tell you to strip down, open all doors, and fly-by the Wing King's house at 500 kts prior to landing gear up in the weather? Besides, if you're carrying pubs in-flight you're likely in a crew airplane. Wouldn't the co say something like, "Hey dumb-a$$, it's this one." What the H is wrong with saying, "Q-1 buddy, but you may want to get rid of the crap in the front of your binder."

Edited January 15, 2009 by Spoo

[amcflyboy]

OH GOD! There's volcanic activity up ahead! What do we do?!? WHICH VERSION OF THIS DATED PUB IS THE MOST CURRENT!?!?

Wow, that's really weak. Explain to me which dire emergency or extreme flight planning session would have you totally task saturated, furiously looking though pubs, and leave you confused over which version of 202v3 to reference. True, there are some pretty dramatic changes from version to version. What...does the old one tell you to strip down, open all doors, and fly-by the Wing King's house at 500 kts prior to landing gear up in the weather? Besides, if you're carrying pubs in-flight you're likely in a crew airplane. Wouldn't the co say something like, "Hey dumb-a$$, it's this one." What the H is wrong with saying, "Q-1 buddy, but you may want to get rid of the crap in the front of your binder."

Spoo, we need more of you guys and your humor here at Flying Squadron! I'm getting ready to go take my A/C recommend ride today and reading that just made my day. I think I'll go do just that.....

[Spoo]

Spoo, we need more of you guys and your humor here at Flying Squadron! I'm getting ready to go take my A/C recommend ride today and reading that just made my day. I think I'll go do just that.....

No worries brother. A sense of humor and a little common sense go a long way...

Good luck on the ride.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Trust me, that check ride was a "learning experience" for me, and now that I'm an evaluator, I remember all the little stupid "Ha! Gotcha!" remarks I've heard over the years. If the pilot getting evaluated is safe and competent, they are going to get a Q-1 from me. I'm not going to hook someone over a minor point or over 1 knot of airspeed, etc. If they make a gross error in judgement, can't safely fly the airplane, or otherwise display a general lack of preparation, a bad attitude or disregard for safety, then they get the Q-3.

If they screw up a particular maneuver/landing, then I'll usually give them the chance to do it over, provided they haven't already displayed one of the above negative attributes. Everyone has a bad day, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases and let them have a retry. Maybe I'm Santa Claus, I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, it's the job of stan/eval to ensure crews are capable of safely operating the aircraft, not ensuring that they are aviation gods that can flawlessly execute a sortie.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Trust me, that check ride was a "learning experience" for me, and now that I'm an evaluator, I remember all the little stupid "Ha! Gotcha!" remarks I've heard over the years. If the pilot getting evaluated is safe and competent, they are going to get a Q-1 from me. I'm not going to hook someone over a minor point or over 1 knot of airspeed, etc. If they make a gross error in judgement, can't safely fly the airplane, or otherwise display a general lack of preparation, a bad attitude or disregard for safety, then they get the Q-3.

If they screw up a particular maneuver/landing, then I'll usually give them the chance to do it over, provided they haven't already displayed one of the above negative attributes. Everyone has a bad day, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in most cases and let them have a retry. Maybe I'm Santa Claus, I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, it's the job of stan/eval to ensure crews are capable of safely operating the aircraft, not ensuring that they are aviation gods that can flawlessly execute a sortie.

I heard your point of view from the FAA guy when I was getting my PPL and it made sense.

Truth be told, I learn alot from guys with that type of attitude vice pricks who are ready to down you with the slightest error.

Everyone flys differently everyday. Sometimes, you are a little low, sometimes a little fast. As long as you understand the safety box, you should be fine.

Cave

[HossHarris]

I heard your point of view from the FAA guy when I was getting my PPL and it made sense.

Truth be told, I learn alot from guys with that type of attitude vice pricks who are ready to down you with the slightest error.

Everyone flys differently everyday. Sometimes, you are a little low, sometimes a little fast. As long as you understand the safety box, you should be fine.

Cave

I have certainly enjoyed my efforts to get to fully understand the "safety box" ... it's the unsafe boxes that worry me.

[Vetter]

Damn, we have some sh!t hot pilots in here. Almost 50% with all Q1/no downgrades...ever?

My bitter downgrade story...the NOTAM for the ILS said it was "unservicable UFN". First off, "unservicable" is not defined anywhere. I'll called the national NOTAM office and even they couldn't give me an answer. I know it could mean out of service, or it could mean they can't work on it...or other things. Well, I fly the approach the day prior, then I call the tower prior to the flight to see if it's up, then I ask approach prior to commencing the approach, then I get chearance for the approach, fly the approach perfectly to finish off what I thought was a perfect checkride. We walk back in from the flight, the SEFE says "great flight, except...". I get an f-in downgrade for mission planning because I shouldn't have planned to fly an approach that was NOTAMed as "unserviceable". I then asked him what "UFN" meant to him....f-in gay. From that point on, I made every effort to fly that SEFE with the Polish studs every chance I got.

[Butters]

Damn, we have some sh!t hot pilots in here. Almost 50% with all Q1/no downgrades...ever?

My bitter downgrade story...the NOTAM for the ILS said it was "unservicable UFN". First off, "unservicable" is not defined anywhere. I'll called the national NOTAM office and even they couldn't give me an answer. I know it could mean out of service, or it could mean they can't work on it...or other things. Well, I fly the approach the day prior, then I call the tower prior to the flight to see if it's up, then I ask approach prior to commencing the approach, then I get chearance for the approach, fly the approach perfectly to finish off what I thought was a perfect checkride. We walk back in from the flight, the SEFE says "great flight, except...". I get an f-in downgrade for mission planning because I shouldn't have planned to fly an approach that was NOTAMed as "unserviceable". I then asked him what "UFN" meant to him....f-in gay. From that point on, I made every effort to fly that SEFE with the Polish studs every chance I got.

This is why I think NOTAMS are for the most part, worthless.

Flying from OTBH to OKAS, NOTAMS say the right runway is closed UFN! When we arrive tower clears me to land on the right, I query them asking for clarification because the right in NOTAM'd closed... Negative, left is closed land on right. OK, so what good was the NOTAM. Turns out it was a mistake and base ops corrected it 10 min before we landed.

[WeMeantWell]

Flunked Mid-Phase: Failed to center the rudder peddals before recovering from the spin...WTF? If you reverse them, they have to center at some point right? I guess I needed to pause at center... australian exchange pilot on his finny flt, I thought I had it made...

The funny thing is, that is the only thing I remember from pilot training, and if I ever intentionally put myself into a spin again, I will definetly remember how to get out

That being said, IMHO, a 'genuine' hooked checkride sometime in your career, very well might save you life one day... that was the attitude I always took with giving evals, 'will Q-3ing this person save their life?' or will it just make them look bad... Sometimes your hands are tied and you can't have them telling everyone they passed wtih what they did ... other times they need a slap in the face that lets them know, flying aint a 'walk in the park Kazansky'... I gave 2 Q-3s and 2 Q-2s, and after a cooling off period, I am friends with all of them.

[Spoo]

Sometimes your hands are tied and you can't have them telling everyone they passed wtih what they did...

Sweet, you're that guy...

I gave 2 Q-3s and 2 Q-2s, and after a cooling off period, I am friends with all of them.

That's what you think.

Don't take offense, I'm just messing with you. In my opinion Q-2's are worthless. Whatever you Q-2 a guy for can likely be called a downgrade.

[WeMeantWell]

Sweet, you're that guy...

That's what you think.

Don't take offense, I'm just messing with you. In my opinion Q-2's are worthless. Whatever you Q-2 a guy for can likely be called a downgrade.

yeah, I was...

I think the job sucks, and I will be the first to admit that being an evalutor these days is not what it used to be. 10 years ago when squadrons were full of FGOs and a captain evaluator was unheard of; the evaluators had a crap load of experience, and could make those calls, because they had seen everything... I honestly felt experienced enough to be a great first pilot, definetly not an EP. I would of turned it down, had I not known who the next couple of choices were.

Now you have young bucks (like me probably) that feel that knowing some bullsh!t line from some obscure reg actually means a hill of beans if you can't put iron in the air, bombs on target, or get/give the gas. Both Q-2s should of been Q-3s and I didn't have the balls at the time to take out 2 fellow EPs (ridicule all you want...).

I saw Q-2s the other way, did they just screw it up, or do they have to go learn it and be evaluated again...

Edited January 26, 2009 by Biaspoint