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SOS/ACSC information

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Haven't started the last two applied sections but curious as to what this hint is? 

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20 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Perhaps a bit off topic from what is being discussed here of late, however how would a Guard unit view a rated pilot from another service who is looking to join as an O-3? I've chosen not to complete USMC PME for O-4 promotion, but am 75% complete with SOS DL Course 22 having started in January. Am I wasting my time? Or would it be viewed favorably?

 

You'll want that done. Most units like to hire folks whose records can at least promote to major. Without PDE, you'll be virtually unable to promote.

Caveat: I'm active duty. I know folks on the reserve/guard side and this is what I've heard from them.

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20 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Perhaps a bit off topic from what is being discussed here of late, however how would a Guard unit view a rated pilot from another service who is looking to join as an O-3? I've chosen not to complete USMC PME for O-4 promotion, but am 75% complete with SOS DL Course 22 having started in January. Am I wasting my time? Or would it be viewed favorably?

 

4 minutes ago, zmoney said:

You'll want that done. Most units like to hire folks whose records can at least promote to major. Without PDE, you'll be virtually unable to promote.

Caveat: I'm active duty. I know folks on the reserve/guard side and this is what I've heard from them.

Guard dude confirming his advice - get it done prior to going to the dark side.  0.0% chance of promotion to Major without it.  

Since you're almost done with USMC PME course, you'll save yourself the loss of IQ points by doing AF SOS.

Edited by Clark Griswold

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All ANG flying slots are Maj slots. With that being said, you will need your PME for promotion. I was the pilot hiring dude and a mid to senior Capt was our hiring wheelhouse. We typically only took junior Majors. You have to have think about retainability, because we do. We have to worry about force mgmt, so we will do our best to avoid being too top heavy.


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19 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

 

Guard dude confirming his advice - get it done prior to going to the dark side.  0.0% chance of promotion to Major without it.  

Since you're almost done with USMC PME course, you'll save yourself the loss of IQ points by doing AF SOS.

Excellent, thank you. It's actually AF SOS that I'm nearly complete with - USMC PME is a two year distant learning program where I'll have knocked out AF PME in about three months after the fourth, final module begins next month.

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4 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Excellent, thank you. It's actually AF SOS that I'm nearly complete with - USMC PME is a two year distant learning program where I'll have knocked out AF PME in about three months after the fourth, final module begins next month.

Excellent - going in with that square filled is the best COA.

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Question about declining IDE.  I just found out I was the #4 guy pushed by my SR (2-star) for IDE on my 3rd look. I don’t really have any interest in attending IDE in residence since I love my job, I don’t want to pack up my family so soon (I’ll be at 1.5 years TOS if I get picked up), and frankly I don’t want the 4 year commitment that goes along with it. I’m consistently ranked in the top 10% of my peers and generally consider myself quite competitive for O-5.  

My questions are:

1) What are the chances of getting picked up for school as the #4 nominee from a 2-Star?

2) Now that you can decline school without prejudice, is there anyone out there who declined IDE and still made O-5?

 

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1) It depends. #4 from a large wing or center of 20+ eligibles? I’m assuming not since there aren’t too many 2* WG/CCs out there. Or was it #4/4 from a staff director? The larger the pool the more significant the push and the better chance of getting picked up.

2) There has not yet been an eligible O-5 IPZ group that could have declined IDE to receive promotion board results. 2004 YG on their third look for IDE was the first IDE eligible group with that option. Their O-5 IPZ board is not until next month so you won’t have any possible data points until those results are released.

My recommendation would be to see how the IDE results pan out and keep your options open. If you ID now, you are showing your cards early. With pilot retention being what it is, nowadays I would generally advise people to just be honest with their chain of command as to their true intentions rather than play the “I want to be a commander” game I grew up with. In your case, though, it sounds like you intend to stay in and compete for O-5. I think you can make a better case to decline school for family QOL reasons rather than remove yourself from contention now.

Edited by Champ Kind
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3 hours ago, Runr6730 said:

Question about declining IDE.  I just found out I was the #4 guy pushed by my SR (2-star) for IDE on my 3rd look. I don’t really have any interest in attending IDE in residence since I love my job, I don’t want to pack up my family so soon (I’ll be at 1.5 years TOS if I get picked up), and frankly I don’t want the 4 year commitment that goes along with it. I’m consistently ranked in the top 10% of my peers and generally consider myself quite competitive for O-5.  

My questions are:

1) What are the chances of getting picked up for school as the #4 nominee from a 2-Star?

2) Now that you can decline school without prejudice, is there anyone out there who declined IDE and still made O-5?

Champs comments are good, but I’ll add my opinion: if you don’t want to do it, and you can option out, then option out.  Make your own choices.  

 

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1.  You dont have any worse of a shot than anyone else who completes IDE online (assuming you did that)

2.  If your record is strong enough to get selected for IDE, you will make Lt Col

3.  You did others a disservice by taking a nomination from your two-star.  Why didnt you just decline to compete in your myvector submission?   

Edited by bennynova

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9 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Champs comments are good, but I’ll add my opinion: if you don’t want to do it, and you can option out, then option out.  Make your own choices.  

 

Thanks for the advice @Champ Kind.  I’ve never been a fan of having to play the “I want to be the next CoS” game, but I’ve never had enough trust in my leadership to be open and honest about my career aspirations.  

@tac airlifterCopy, I fully intend on doing so.

 

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5 minutes ago, bennynova said:

You did others a disservice by taking a nomination from your two-star.  Why didnt you just decline to compete in your myvector submission?   

I’m sure you know as well as I do that declining to compete on my last look is equivalent to showing my cards before the flop is even delt. Does it weigh on me that I could have possibly taken a nomination from someone who wanted it?  Yes, but I am keeping doors open until the last possible moment. I have to do what’s best for my family and my career, in that order.

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51 minutes ago, Runr6730 said:

I’ve never had enough trust in my leadership to be open and honest about my career aspirations.  

This. This. A thousand times this. Belongs in "why the AF is f*&#ed" thread. I've considered myself lucky anytime I've had leadership I feel comfortable being open and honest with (i.e. no reprisal for my sharing information about my personal/family career desires and goals), and it's certainly been the exception and not the norm. When you win the lottery with a commander you are able to be honest with, without exception, it is a drastically different feeling (empowerment) and the system can work SO WELL. Sadly it's not common. 

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:08 PM, Runr6730 said:

Question about declining IDE.  I just found out I was the #4 guy pushed by my SR (2-star) for IDE on my 3rd look. I don’t really have any interest in attending IDE in residence since I love my job, I don’t want to pack up my family so soon (I’ll be at 1.5 years TOS if I get picked up), and frankly I don’t want the 4 year commitment that goes along with it. I’m consistently ranked in the top 10% of my peers and generally consider myself quite competitive for O-5.  

My questions are:

1) What are the chances of getting picked up for school as the #4 nominee from a 2-Star?

2) Now that you can decline school without prejudice, is there anyone out there who declined IDE and still made O-5?

 

#4 of how many nominees?  On my second look, I was #2/7 nominee with some good-to-great wing strats and that landed me on the alternate list.  I ended up getting bumped up to the primary list recently and declined it since I don't want to leave in the middle of my Joint Tour.  There is no prejudice for declining....just make sure you have it done in correspondence prior to your O-5 IPZ board. 

- The O-5 Central Promotion Board will not know whether you declined IDE in-residence or not.  They will only know whether you are complete or incomplete.  Be complete....whether you want to go in-res or not....that is up to you knowing full well, in this crazy system we use for officer command selection and promotion to O-6, in-res graduates do enjoy a marked advantage in these areas. 

 

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1 hour ago, celtic020 said:

#4 of how many nominees?  On my second look, I was #2/7 nominee with some good-to-great wing strats and that landed me on the alternate list.  I ended up getting bumped up to the primary list recently and declined it since I don't want to leave in the middle of my Joint Tour.  There is no prejudice for declining....just make sure you have it done in correspondence prior to your O-5 IPZ board. 

- The O-5 Central Promotion Board will not know whether you declined IDE in-residence or not.  They will only know whether you are complete or incomplete.  Be complete....whether you want to go in-res or not....that is up to you knowing full well, in this crazy system we use for officer command selection and promotion to O-6, in-res graduates do enjoy a marked advantage in these areas. 

 

For the love of god, we ALL know how worthless ACSC in correspondence is.... Please just stop. It can’t be a discriminator when the masses cut the bvllsh!t on their own.

 

Reference: AvIP changes, two tour in place option, CBT removal/thrash, 365 reductions, 5 year fencing for those that deployed their asses off. All because we are finally voting with our feet.

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For the love of god, we ALL know how worthless ACSC in correspondence is.... Please just stop. It can’t be a discriminator when the masses cut the bvllsh!t on their own.
 
Reference: AvIP changes, two tour in place option, CBT removal/thrash, 365 reductions, 5 year fencing for those that deployed their asses off. All because we are finally voting with our feet.


There’s no way in hell that you collectively get several year groups worth of officers to blow off ACSC in correspondence. A few over achievers with time on their hands ruins the whole deal.

And to the post above, no, a promotion board would not know whether you declined, and yes, your OPB only says “IDE COMPLETE” with no mention of residence or correspondence.... BUT, going in residence generates a duty title on your job history and a training report that will be at/near the top of your ROP. It is easy for a board member to know if you went in residence and it is still a discriminator.
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1 minute ago, Champ Kind said:

 


There’s no way in hell that you collectively get several year groups worth of officers to blow off ACSC in correspondence. A few over achievers with time on their hands ruins the whole deal.
.

 

True. But you’ve got to start somewhere.... Wolves and Sheep and sh!t right?

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