SOS/ACSC information

[slackline]

Sigh, typical haterade on here for this sort of question so I will say congrats for getting picked up.

Don't slow down like some selects and utilize the old chain of command. Odds are that someone in it has been to an ASG. Expressing your desire for this as a career goal during an OPD session would be a good way to start.

Disclaimer: I am not a school select.

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Unsure if directed at my comment. No haterade going on, just an observation. Is SAASS good, sure, but my comment still stands. I said nothing about being a careerist, only that they pick people they know are going to promote later on.

I am a school guy, have a few friends at SAASS now, and selected for next year. They aren't careerists, but it's obvious they are on an upwards vector. Not hating, just stating fact.

[sigmanugary]

I appriciate the comments but Bender I wasn't joking. I just finished up a gig teaching at the FTU last summer and now I'm stationed overseas simply flying the line(finishing up requal Trng actually). I miss teaching and also enjoy learning (military history nerd). I don't need SAASS to make O-5; the only reason I mentioned that rank is I don't think anything beyond Lt Col for me will be possible. I'm thankful for the IDE slot just trying to look into my options after school.

Speaking of mentors...I don't have any official mentors but I'm lucky to have some older guys at work that I'm buddies with who have helped me out so far.

Edited February 24, 2015 by sigmanugary

[MoTx]

Anyone have any new 5-wk SOS gouge after the first few go-rounds? Heading there tomorrow. I know they've made a few changes to supposedly make it less "cramming 8 wks into 5," but the only things I've heard for sure are...

-No more practice PT test

-Less death by .ppt for 8 hrs a day

-More time for "networking" (hoping that means )

Thanks guys

[waltopfor]

Just finished up a few weeks ago. You're correct in the statements you made. The 1st week was 0800-1700 after that we routine were finished by 1500. Plenty of time to drink and chill, assignments are easy... Require maybe 2 hrs of prep. Reading is a lot if you do it all. Skim it to have something to say so you're not just staring at each other. I had a good flight so made it tolerable. Honestly it was a nice break from the day o day. Plus at 5 weeks I was able to come home current and pick right back up flying the line.

[Dupe]

-More time for "networking" (hoping that means )

This.

I have no idea what I formally learned in SOS.

I still remember hearing the Services officer explain why he has no ability to make the club better or the missile dude telling about how absolutely horrible the climate was in the nuke world.

[Skitzo]

New for this year;

Central IDE/SDE Board. The Central IDE/SDE Board is the first phase of the DT Process for LAF officers. Using an officers’ SURF, Record of Performance (ROP), and 3849, an IDE/SDE Central Board will convene in order to review each SR’s nomination on the 3849 and develop a rank order of merit (ROM) for all LAF nominees. Each DT will then be given their respective ROM to provide developmental vectors for primary DE nominees. SRs must understand their stratification and comments will be used by the central board in developing the ROM. This ROM, and only this ROM, will be used by DTs, the schools match board, and the DEDB.

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[11F]

New for this year;

Central IDE/SDE Board. The Central IDE/SDE Board is the first phase of the DT Process for LAF officers. Using an officers SURF, Record of Performance (ROP), and 3849, an IDE/SDE Central Board will convene in order to review each SRs nomination on the 3849 and develop a rank order of merit (ROM) for all LAF nominees. Each DT will then be given their respective ROM to provide developmental vectors for primary DE nominees. SRs must understand their stratification and comments will be used by the central board in developing the ROM. This ROM, and only this ROM, will be used by DTs, the schools match board, and the DEDB.

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Thanks for the gouge. From what I understand, this comes from those in AFGSC complaining that they weren't getting a fair shake. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Bender]

New for this year;

Central IDE/SDE Board. The Central IDE/SDE Board is the first phase of the DT Process for LAF officers. Using an officers’ SURF, Record of Performance (ROP), and 3849, an IDE/SDE Central Board will convene in order to review each SR’s nomination on the 3849 and develop a rank order of merit (ROM) for all LAF nominees. Each DT will then be given their respective ROM to provide developmental vectors for primary DE nominees. SRs must understand their stratification and comments will be used by the central board in developing the ROM. This ROM, and only this ROM, will be used by DTs, the schools match board, and the DEDB.

Is there a regulation or policy memo that spells this process out? At least prior to this alteration...because Bendy does not understand what is going on here. Sounds like we're just redoing the promotion board to determine school matches vice slots, with the caveat you had to be nominated by your senior rater via 3849, vice DP/P. Except everyone competes for promotion, only those the SR deems worthy (capped at 20% of eligibles, of course) get a pony in this show.

I'm curious what #1 on the ROM gets...a choice of triple pay VSP or a seat for ACSC; well done, what would you like good sir?

Bendy

[pcola]

Is IDE correspondence completion masked from the IDE selection board now, or is it still a practice bleeding requirement?

[tac airlifter]

Anyone recommend a studio apartment in Maxwell?

[Skitzo]

My source says it was in the PSDM page 10. I believe the SURF lists you as a select.

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[11F]

Anyone recommend a studio apartment in Maxwell?

I knew a guy who was a geo-bachelor for the year there last year. He lived in a studio downtown that was dirt cheap. Shady characters around there at night sometimes, but it was cheap, and there was some nightlife. Plus the drive into work was really quick.

If you were asking for a POC, PM me your .mil address and I'll put you in contact with that dude.

[slackline]

Anyone recommend a studio apartment in Maxwell?

PM your.mil if you're still looking. I have a buddy who just renovated a room above his detached garage in Old Cloverdale.

[olevelo]

Is IDE correspondence completion masked from the IDE selection board now, or is it still a practice bleeding requirement?

As of last year (or maybe this year, depending on how you look at it), selects are no longer allowed to register for correspondence unless they've been selected for an in-residence program that requires it. At least that's what was supposed to happen. Candidates can register as soon as they have a line number still.

[Bender]

My source says it was in the PSDM page 10. I believe the SURF lists you as a select.

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Indeed it was...difficult to pick out without looking at a previous PDSM. I couldn't locate the '14 one with my free 20 seconds, but the '13 PDSM also didn't have another step, DT vectoring of each nominee. I'm a fan of this concept, but I believe Senior Raters should be mandated to submit their full quota every year (nor should a PRF ever be submitted blank, but that's a different issue). DT's would lean on previous vectors, creating a limited amount of additional work, as a lot of the same people SHOULD be being looked at within the 3 year cycles. This would open the opportunity to address the 20-40 percentile people more carefully that, for whatever reason, didn't quite "get it" at promotion time.

We should be "vectoring" people more closely, even if they aren't going to school. I think these changes are a good idea. Someone at AFPC had a good idea.

Bendy

Edit: PDSM, PSDM, potato, potato.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bender

[Bender]

As of last year (or maybe this year, depending on how you look at it), selects are no longer allowed to register for correspondence unless they've been selected for an in-residence program that requires it. At least that's what was supposed to happen. Candidates can register as soon as they have a line number still.

I believe the question was in reference to the masking of in-residence attendance to the promotion board. If the promotion board can no longer see it, a subsequent IDE/SDE board that can see it could work to undo the point of that change. If the SURF lists school select status, that would also serve the same counterproductive function...I'm not sure it actually does, but the OPB may.

Either way, here lies my question about regulations governing this process. You have one team making good changes, while another isolated team undoes it with a process that doesn't account for the other. I know, it's a big organization with a lot of moving parts, and life is hard...

Straight to what I believe you were thinking with your reply, just because you aren't allowed to practice bleeding doesn't mean Big Blue won't punish you for not doing it. We can't help but look at quantitative discriminators...it's too easy.

Bendy

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bender

[ThreeHoler]

I believe the question was in reference to the masking of in-residence attendance to the promotion board. If the promotion board can no longer see it, a subsequent IDE/SDE board that can see it could work to undo the point of that change. If the SURF lists school select status, that would also serve the same counterproductive function...I'm not sure it actually does, but the OPB may.

Either way, here lies my question about regulations governing this process. You have one team making good changes, while another isolated team undoes it with a process that doesn't account for the other. I know, it's a big organization with a lot of moving parts, and life is hard...

Straight to what I believe you were thinking with your reply, just because you aren't allowed to practice bleeding doesn't mean Big Blue won't punish you for not doing it. We can't help but look at quantitative discriminators...it's too easy.

Bendy

OPB lists "complete" whether it was residence or correspondence. Duty history on the OPB and the TR from resident DE (in most cases) means it is not masked from promotion boards.

[pcola]

As of last year (or maybe this year, depending on how you look at it), selects are no longer allowed to register for correspondence unless they've been selected for an in-residence program that requires it. At least that's what was supposed to happen. Candidates can register as soon as they have a line number still.

Understood. My question was if IDE correspondence completion is still a discriminator for candidates trying to get picked up for in-res.

[Nineline]

Understood. My question was if IDE correspondence completion is still a discriminator for candidates trying to get picked up for in-res.

Short answer: It depends on your senior rater.

While I don't believe the DT uses correspondence completion singularly as one of their discriminators to establish your order of merit, it could be potentially factored into your senior raters ranking of eligible candidates on your 3849. But good luck finding a senior rater that would admit this to you publicly, as that admission would run counter to the CSAF's guidance on practice bleeding.

-9-

Reason for edit: Typo

Edited March 14, 2015 by Nineline

[pcola]

Copy, thanks. Since the deputy OG sent an email inquiring as to the progress I've made in correspondence after I submitted my 3849, it's probably pretty safe to assume they are still using it as a discriminator...not surprising at all.

[Fug]

Not to give credit where it isn't due, but they may have inquired to provide a stronger push to a school that isn't ACSC. "pcola is my #1 eligible! Push to Brazil for 2 years of partying……he already has that silly AF school done."

[Herk Driver]

But good luck finding a senior rater that would admit this to you publicly, as that admission would run counter to the CSAF's guidance on practice bleeding.

How so? In terms of the original question related to IDE candidates. Edited March 14, 2015 by Herk Driver

[Herk Driver]

I think this was asked somewhere in this thread or another about sister service DL. I ran across the following today on the AU website FAQs. If this was already answered my apologies.

Q: As an Air Force officer, can I enroll in a sister service distance learning PME program?

A: Sister service schools establish their own eligibility requirements. And, you can enroll. However, Air Force DE policy requires that you complete your service school first before receiving credit for a completed sister service program.

[Nineline]

How so? In terms of the original question related to IDE candidates.

As you probably know, CSAF's policy of restricting IDE completion by correspondence by school selects was to specifically prevent wasting an officer's time by doing it twice (i.e. practice bleeding). While not explicitly stated, CSAF's intent of eliminating practice bleeding applies to all officers, regardless of whether they are a select or a candidate.

A senior rater who uses a candidates completion of IDE by correspondence as a metric for 3849 stratification is clearly ignoring CSAF's intent on practice bleeding.

-9-

Edited March 15, 2015 by Nineline

[Nineline]

Not to give credit where it isn't due, but they may have inquired to provide a stronger push to a school that isn't ACSC. "pcola is my #1 eligible! Push to Brazil for 2 years of partying……he already has that silly AF school done."

I see where you're going with this. And while I'm sure that some candidates have been selected for the primo IDE programs in previous years, I would also argue that it's highly unlikely. The stats over the past few years show that it's a low percentage of candidates who are selected for IDE. The percentage is exponentially lower for candidates who are selected for something other than ACSC.

The reality is that it's a difficult sell to get a candidate to some place other than Maxwell when there are selects fighting for the same slot.

-9-