mach2m3

These guys are both incredibly lucky. At the fields I have flown into and out of with lots of jump ops both sides generally mesh just fine when the DZ is well defined and with good de-confliction to the normal fixed wing patterns (north traffic only etc..). However I have flown into many many fields where the DZ's are not as well defined, barely de-conflicted, and both sides believe they own the airspace (notable is Eloy, AZ). NOTAMS, temporary or permanent do not solve nor do they even abate the conflict issues. I always check NOTAMS before I fly and but just knowing that jumpers are up hasn't always helped. Jumpers aren't always where they should be and airplanes aren't either for that matter. I have had jump planes release jumpers in and directly over the traffic pattern. I have had jumpers cut across my runway while I was on final at 50'. I have had them land in front of me while rolling out the runway. I even had a kid run across the runway, chute in hand while I was just above the flare. I went around, and as I flew over him my (very light btw) prop wash caught part of his cute knocking him over on the active. This led to 3 more other airplanes to go-around or break off while he got his shit together.The DZ was centrally located on the field (Marana, AZ for those of you familiar) and in general there should have no reason for them to stray across the active runway but they did anyway, having jumped early. Rather than land off DZ and wait for a ride they pushed to make it. Totally disregarding the powered flight traffic pattern. I figured 3 instances at a field where jumpers are up all the time isn't bad and most of the time no issue but still. Same time I have watched aircraft cruise right over the DZ after multiple calls from the drop plane. Even heard more than a few pilots express the view that jumpers should just avoid them where ever they fly. Fact is, the airfield is the domain of landing and departing AIRCRAFT. The DZ is the domain for JUMPERS and they need to be well separated and defined. No matter what you NOTAM or publish in an AFD someone will miss/ignore it. If you want to be safe, separate and mark clearly. I've always thought that pattern restrictions printed on the sectional where the best way to go.

Ladies and gents, This is exactly the conversation I was hoping to avoid. I am still interested to know if safety types have access across the services. I think it would be far more profitable to find out what happened outside Creech, especially what went right that allowed all 4 crew to walk away, rather than a back and forth on the merits of various backend crew.

If only there had been 3 CBT's and Earth was encircled by a giant reflective belt to improve visibility of the ground and thus prevent collisions with it. ....Yea lets not go down the road of "if only -------------then this wouldn't have happened". I'll just be interested to hear the safety report when it eventually comes out. Does anyone know if AF SE types can pull reports from the other services?

Not much has been said on the matter outside the local Las Vegas news. Sounds like everyone got out just fine though the rumor mill has it the aircraft is VERY badly damaged ("burnt to the ground" was the exact phrasing). Just hope that everyone is indeed alright. http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/aug/27/nv-marine-osprey-crash/

This is more than a shame. This is an outrage. The same as the Aussie kid shot for no reason. If there was a time for people to be up in arms and hopping mad these are the acts that should drive such a public outcry. Killed for no other reason than existing while some one else was "bored". But there will not be such an outcry, there will be no protests, no calls for action (rational or irrational), no statements of kinship from the Administration. Its not about the crime, the motive, or the effects, its about who commits it and whether that story will sell.

For those of you that follow the EAA or the expiremental world of general aviation.... http://www.eaa.org/news/2013/2013-08-22_eaa-founder-paul-poberezny-passes-at-age-91.asp A loss for the general aviation community.

Today in 1969.... http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/apollo11_40th.html#.UesOH23JLEh To Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins, and the thousands who worked tirelessly to get them there and bring them home safe.

Heard about this this am: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/16/world/asia/afghanistan-violence/index.html?hpt=wo_c2 stand to your glasses steady

Being a relatively new hh-60 guy I will not attempt to advocate one side or the other in this argument. However it seems to me that with the recent announcement of so many A-10 squadron closures, that the rescue community has seen the writing on the wall for our relied upon RMC. While the Hog is certainly not going away tomorrow, the prospect of losing all the Sandy experienced dudes (to other cockpits that do not generally fill that role or out of the AF) has galvanized everyone to start looking for other options. The consensus appears to be that we must be fully prepared to operate should the day come that there are no longer any Sandy qualified assets available. To that end (and those of us at DM have heard it endlessly) it would make sense for rescue to "own our mission" to ensure that a fully trained RMC is always available and we are not left relying on someone else in the CAF. No one is getting any more flying hours and adding yet another highly demanding mission set to another platform is obviously going to have a slow, steep learning curve. There are several platforms that posses all the capabilities to fulfill the RMC role effectively besides the A-10 but until the torch of Sandy is effectively handed off, it seems the only way for rescue to ensure that level of expertise remains consistent is to begin training to it. While there are serious limfacs to having an HH-60 or HC-130 RMC, it can only help to have both sets train to that level since it allows for options down the road and will help bridge the gap between the end of one era of Sandy and the beginning of the next.

Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." -- Captain John Parker, 1775 and the rest is history, happy Independence Day!

Last known veteran of the great war has passed away. Story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13289607

From this morning at Davis Monthan.... Since the closure of the runway, the base was "re-named" to reflect current operations....

Regardless of feeling over the jacket itself, what AFI or other reg governs who is supposed to issue the A-2 jacket and how many are authorized etc.. I have reviewed AFI 36-2903 and it covers who is authorized to wear it and when but not whether or not it is an issued item or something that authorized wearers have to purchase on their own. Basically the supply bubba's here won't get them unless we can prove not only that they are authorized but that we are to be issued them.

To those we have lost and pray for a quick and complete recovery of the injured.

Thought I'd add a few