sputnik

Sorry to hear that. Place has a less than good rep, but hadn't heard as bad as your description. I'm guinea pig at a new place in Den, I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully better than your experience. And again, sorry, what a kick in the junk.

If you have to, go buy the 17 hours in a Cessna, should be able to do that well under $2k. Still a heck of a lot cheaper than the new plan. Personally, I kind of think Butters is right, eventually they'll give a mil equivalency for the training. But I'm not a betting man, so I'd do it.

Yes. The written isn't terrible, go buy the software, lock yourself in a room for ~20 hours, and take it. You can knock it out over a weekend if you want, or a mission with a lot of cruise time. It's a hell of a lot easier than SOS or diploma mill masters. I don't know if you have to have the mins to take the written. No one asked me anything about flight time, I called and made the appt, when I showed up all they wanted was my drivers license. Bit more paperwork with the practical.

His point is, go read the requirements. Or at least the posted article about the requirements. You are correct, any military guy will have the 1500 hour requirement met. But then you will have to take those 1500 hours and drop 20k to get your ATP. Edit to just post from it. Emphasis mine, full article at: http://www.avweb.com/news/features/The-New-ATPA-Brief-Window-Before-the-Sky-Falls221453-1.html The big deal is the “airline transport pilot certification training program” set out in FAR 61.156. This requirement kicks in on August 1, 2014. It’s staggeringly expensive for a prospective professional pilot and, frustratingly, it’s pretty much the same as a portion of the training a new hire gets at an airline, but now the ATP applicant has to somehow pay for it and pass it before he or she can even take the ATP written. You must complete it successfully and show a graduation certificate from a training provider that has applied for and had its training program approved by the FAA. The training provider must either be an airline operating under Part 135 or 121 or a certified training provider operating under Part 141 or 142. The program must be taught by instructors who hold an ATP and have at least two years of airline experience. I’m curious as to what kind of salary range is going to be necessary to attract and retain instructors with such experience. As part of the ATP training program, you’ll have to go through at least 30 hours of classroom instruction (a classroom is specified, not on-line training) in aerodynamics, high altitude operations, meteorology, air carrier operations, physiology, communications, checklist philosophy, operational control, minimum equipment list/configuration deviation list, ground operations, turbine engines, transport category aircraft performance, automation, leadership, professional development, crew resource management and—lastly—safety culture.Along with the classroom instruction you’ll have to buy at least six hours in a Level C (full motion) sim that represents a multi-engine turbine airplane with a max takeoff weight of at least 40,000 pounds. One good thing is that the regs allow the Administrator to approve a deviation from a weight requirement for the simulated airplane—which means that a lot of current bizjet simulators could get approval. You’ll also need another four hours of sim time, but that can be in a lower cost FSTD of Level four or higher. I’ve been looking at cost estimates for the ATP certification training program ever since the FAA put out the NPRM on this regulation. According to the AOPA, a Level C sim runs at least $8 million. A room or building, with suitable environmentals, has to be built to house it. Techs have to be hired to keep it working. The instructors have to meet the ATP and two year of airline experience requirement. Two years ago, AOPA estimated that rental rates for such sims will be $1000 per hour, before considering the cost of building the building and hiring staff. I think that a more realistic number, all things considered, is going to be on the order of $2000 per hour for the six hours in the Level C sim. Based on prices for similar courses at the major simulator training centers, a bare minimum of $15,000 for the ATP certification training program is a fair estimate, with reality probably on the order of $20,000.

Quantity has a quality all it's own. Hours alone aren't probably the best. But the airlines don't hire the people with the most time. I'm pretty comfortable concluding that 1500 hours of the worst cruise flying still beats 250 out of the diploma mills. How does it stack up to 1500 hours flying single engine single pilot at night flying checks.... Who knows, but I'd still take that guy over a 250 guy. But your question is what led to the current situation. It was decided everyone has to have an ATP. Fine. Then the ATP requirements were re-defined. The required training (caveat, as I understand it) is a little insane.

I don't equate an ATP with being an AC. I think there should be minimum standards to fly 121, and when they were hiring guys with 250 hours and sitting them in the right seat of a passenger jet, that didn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm wrong. And I don't equate 250 instructing in a 172 with the 250 you get in UPT, there's a difference in the category of aircraft flown, if nothing else. I've had some remarkably clueless, fresh out of UPT/Altus copilots, so maybe you have a point.

Hope you're right. This whole thing.... It makes sense to me that anyone in a front seat of a passenger airliner should have 1500 hours and an ATP. How it went from they need an ATP to the mess described in the article is a bit beyond me.

Pretty sure she doesn't have to. Just curious what the benefits of Florida residency vs. Alaska would be--what are you/she concerned about giving up? Alaska....pretty nice state benefits.

I wouldn't count on it. The process now isn't that bad, but it's still a pain. And pointless. I'm spending a bunch of money to do some painful training to prove the govt that I can do what I've been paid to do for the last 18 years for the same govt. As with the mil comp CFI, it ought to be a written and call it good. Though the written....thankfully I know now how many gallons of gas I can carry inside the aircraft while flying as a commercial operator in Alaska. That's pure gold, gunna come in handy in my next career. If they don't have a mil comp now, why would they later when they've tightened up the training requirements across the board? And thank God for Sheppard Air.

I visited the factory where they modded them, got to crawl all around it. Then had to google it. Cool plane, looks like a blast to fly.

Outside of 180s or 365s, if you have more than a year left they can just send you somewhere on a remote that needs filling. Doesn't have same 365 vulnerability rules that 21 mentioned above. Having two years retainability and turning down a PCS--I'd bet on a remote (some AFSCs are more likely than others though).

Dad of a friend of mine was an anesthesiologist, every time I ran into him he'd go on about his regrets about not being a military pilot. Considering the zillions per year he was banking.... It made me like what I was doing even more.

Yes they are, I work with a bunch and they ain't feeling too great today. Roughly 50% depending on year group. And if you check the FSB, it's about 30%.

Hey, 2002 airfield ops has to feel great, overage of 10, 7 eligible. Those aren't great odds.

Wait, so saying "what's the G2" means "what's the intel?" Hell, I was in the Army, and I've never heard that before. Anyway, Torpedo good (my palate, not that sophisticated)

I don't know. He made a statement that retiring in a lower grade would have a huge effect on your retired earnings. That isn't true.

I don't think you understand math. The question was, if you retire as an O5 with only two years in grade....what's the practical effect? It has zero effect on your retirement income, it means your retired ID card says says you're a major.

I don't know what G2 means, but I like the Torpedo. Local Costco stocks it and I drink lots.

He (Rusty) may be, but I'm kinda with him on this.

My info is dated, but public schools in Kailua and Mililani were considered decent when I lived there. I've never lived anywhere with that many private schools though, and they ain't cheap. There was a catholic school right outside the base that had a good rep. Knew quite a few folks who sent their kids there and were happy. K-8 I think.

It is embarrassing how long it took me to figure out why Alaska's clear superiority to Arkansas had anything to do with M2.

Um, details?

Not meet time in grade.

FIFY

MOAA's thoughts. Heck, I might even join. http://www.moaa.org/factvsfiction/