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Today I learned I am a total shitbag, because I did not go to school.

Go fuck your face. The author of that "sob story" is one of my buddies and one of the most patriotic, humble, well-liked dudes I've known in my years in the AF. Not many people here have had assignments cancelled after: signing papers for a house, wife finding a GOOD job, and enrolling kids in school mere days before it starts. I don't care what you've been through, that's tough on anyone. Now, because one GO thinks heavy drivers aren't capable of teaching tac form, he has to do it all over again, but now he gets to pull his kids out of school mid-year and enroll them somewhere else. His post should be something we can all rally around as another feather in the "Big Blue gives zero fucks about us" cap. Most of us in his situation would punch at the soonest opportunity, middle fingers in the air. But knowing the author, he will take the kick in the junk and keep moving forward because he cares about Mother Blue and legitimately wants to fix this cluster fuck and leave it in a better place.

This thread is actually really kind of comical. On one hand, you have pointy nose dudes bitching about the lack of quality of UPT/IFF grads they are getting because the training pipeline is so badly undermanned, and then in the very same post, come up with this elitist BS about how other people don't have what it takes to train your guys. Like, okay, fine, the rest of us weren't exactly knocking down the door to come join your dumpster fire, but hey good luck with not having a midair with your shitty VR-trained UPT Next wingman that the last 3 training programs have been passing the buck on.

Indeed. I'm certainly not defending the AF assignments process. Our PCS outlays are an example of FWA imo. But that's part and parcel of the total war campaign the AD component has always had with the concept of homesteading in military life, as a matter of principle it seems. It certainly has spilled into Active Duty Lite (aka AFRC), while the NGB is probably the last remaining bastion of hope on that front. I've never witnessed a professional organization so gratuitously and pointedly contemptuous against their employee's home life, as the DOD. I know late-to-UPT guys who gambled and lost at ENJPPT. They took a special assignment heavy, which was a hell of a lot better than an FEB, then pivoted to T-1 land and moved on to better things, whether it be an AD retirement, or an airline pivot, or both! The unfairness of life is noted, but you gotta make some lemonade if you want to move forward. As to the degradation of UPT. Again, we're conflating subjects. From my vantage point having done it for the last decade (I've done all subsets of the UPT/PIT mission, with the exception of T-1s): it's pretty much a lowering of the hours/culling of events imho. MAF folks in 38s are frankly a red herring on this topic. Yes, there's an aggregate pressure on the development programs as a result (sorry if that triggers some, but it's what we've witnessed in PIT and phase-III alike), but most end up doing ok for the job given enough time and mentorship. Furthermore, I disavow the dismissive notion that phase III 38 rigors are so overstated, the ladies at the CDC could be tasked to do it and thus there's nothing to complain about on the IP development side. It is something I've heard from both some disgruntled T11K3D coded 11F that find the UPT mission set beneath them, and MAF guys resentful of the waiver impositions. I'm a casualty of the "bomber cap" stonewalling myself for years, so I'm not speaking from the cheap seats on this one. But a spade's a spade. Not everybody is cut out for T-38 IP work, upsetting as it may be for those who may resemble the remark. From my perspective, the MAF-38-butt-hurt "problem" arose when PIT got timeline/production pressured to punt that extra mentorship, a syllabus/resource allocation PIT was never designed for mind you, to the TI side of the UPT 38 squadrons. UPT 38 squadrons naturally wailed when IFF started throwing shade at them for a product that was legitimately rushed through, in part (not in whole) due to the low turnout of IPs based on said no-kidding attrition from TI. The finger pointing went off the rails at that point. And here we are....and now we have these drunken embarrassments on FB, coming full circle. Color me not surprised. I've seen the dynamic from two of the three-sided mexican standoff now (aka UPT-PIT-IFF). Everybody has a valid gripe on that, but again from my perspective, the product is rotting at the UPT level due to syllabus cuts. At the macro level, the problem is that every time one makes this argument as an older head, one gets accused by the NAF/MAJCOM of making a Luddite argument against PTN, which isn't the case at all. Fact is Kwast is out that job, and hopefully that good idea fairy will die with it. It caused enough chaos and production losses last year as it was (again, don't ask me how I know). Guess what made up for the losses at the expense of fatigue and manning for the least year? You guessed it: surging for a year on the legacy syllabus. And now AETC wants to take credit for that, whilst touting PTN as the solution to the problem they created, and not the genesis of the problem in the first place? Typical gaslighting. It's a total con job. The ultimate reality is that HAF has essentially accepted this dilution of quality, and the deaths we have and will cause as a result of this greening, are an acceptable and more importantly, plausibly-deniable quantity to them. So we're tilting at the windmills here as the labor pawns with no say in the matter. We all signed up for a certain level of commodification of our lives when we agreed to this indentured servitude. The kitchen just happens to be getting real hot on that front as of late. I'm not being flippant; I have a family I'd like to come home to at night, and buried two co-workers in the last year alone on account of this "so easy a CDC lady could do it" job. I'm just describing the water here with the benefit of a decade's worth of hindsight. Don't hang the postman.

This was shared on TPN fb group with regards to Goldfein's comment. Unsure how recent it is.

maybe if that email would have said 'mandatory for all active duty 'personnel' , buttttt ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hey white knight, I was merely asking. Calm the fuck down with the keyboard hostility and go fuck yourself right back with your misplaced umbrage, trying to make me the straw man for your buddy's lot in life. You re barking up the wrong tree. This god damn board I tell ya. The stundepilot.net days seem civilized by comparison. At any rate. My aggregate point on the dynamics of the UPT fiasco stand. FUBIJAR.

Folks, there are never school lists here, only high morale, joy, and time off... https://careers.fedex.com/pilot http://deltajobs.net/pilots.htm https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/company/career/pilot.html

So now it’s reported he killed himself. Even though I thought he’d been under 24 suicide watch. I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but someone that could possibly take down the current president, a former president, a royal, and probably countless other rich and powerful people kills himself the day after Prince Andrew is named in unsealed documents? How did he do it? Did he kill himself with 2 shots to the back of the head? Seriously though, seems fishy. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

Someone honestly needs fired for this. It's not just you. They are revoking all PIT waivers. Very good friends of mine on a join spouse just got split after moving to a UPT base they didn't even want (but at least they were together) when AFPC denied one of their waivers and PCS'd them elsewhere. Total assery! Not to mention, how much money did I as a tax payer just waste on moving someone twice in a week!?!?! Edit: Removed quote at request of OP.

All to make people more resilient so they don't commit suicide...

I'll bite on this, because this sounds like a pretty huge case of you don't know what you don't know (i.e. low SA). I'm not going to sit here and tell you being the bomber requires the most skill in sorting SA to launch smart weapons vice cleaning up the air picture in a single seater...but yeah, dropping the one or two you're used to is easy. In this high end fight you're talking about, though, no one is calling a bomber to drop two weapons. In a RF or WSINT type vul, there are probably 20 DPIs per jet in the formation all roughly co-located that you're trying to hit in one pass battling system limitations that make it challenging to get the releases done if everything goes right. You're probably sorting in a few DTs last-minute in a jet that requires two people to input weapons data because it's in a computer programming language from the 60s. We tend to lack SA because literally the airplane has no way to convey us SA outside of radios. No A-A radar, no Link picture, simply listening to the Strike and OCA freqs. So when you're the Strike Package commander, you're sorting your targets and listening to the thrash within, monitoring the other striker formations, and assessing the threats from verbal calls the OCA dudes are all making on OCA freq because AWACS is always behind. All while some non-pilot in your jet talks over every radio call there is. Every air frame has their mission challenges in the high end fight. Bomber dudes don't have to be the smartest, no we're not setting our lift vector all over and maneuvering 3-D, and not every dude is capable of RF strike package commander type SA, but it's not sitting in Afghanistan dropping one or two 31s on a mud hut.

I get that you’re now part of Big Blue... but it’s poor form to comment and critique SUPT considering you did not attend....there’s something to be said for being a graduate of a course and thus being familiar with the intangibles...

The airdroppers in the different communities do a fair amount large, multi-ship (often dissimilar aircraft) formations to an objective area, via a LL, threat react/get the giant gaggle back together, to mass drop on DZ then min close an LZ. I think a lot of CAF guys discredit the MAF since they simply don’t have a good understanding of what some of them truly do. Sure, the physical flying is different, but there is a big picture/airmanship/SA skillset that is developed and is transferable when teaching a student in UPT, regardless of airframe (T-6, T-1, T-38). I think heavy guys get a bad wrap when it comes to “aptitude” to teach as compared to fighter dudes, and that’s because the MAF as an institution largely doesn’t value good instructional ability (even flying skill in general) in their pilots. They care more about winning quarterly awards and your next PRF than any sort of proficiency in an airplane, and it’s sad. All of the non 11Fs that are instructing these days came from the 2010-13 year timeframe when most fighter FTUs were backed up. The fact is most of them would have flown fighters too if the AF hadn’t screwed the pooch on fighter manning. It’s not these guys’ fault. I’m thoroughly convinced that when someone pins on their first star (and arguably the chicken for some), all common sense in decision making goes out the window in favor of self-preservation when trying to chase that next star.

That's called the Air National Guard.

They’ve started forcing VR on IFF and the FTUs as well, and cutting syllabi. Eventually we’ll just have an Air Force that never flies the plane until it’s time for war. I can’t wait to be done with this disaster of an organization.

Nevertheless, hard to argue that the AF did not fork the guy... I have empathy. Especially when this has more or less been my experience every, single, PCS. Unfortunately, like you said, it seems to happen to everyone. That said, if everyone stayed silent there would be 0% chance of leadership accountability or change. As far as the pro tips, good stuff. In this guy's case he sounds like a prior E guy who is going to finish out his 20 in 4-6 years.

I guess I was the bottom ~25% of my year group according to the Air Force. Maybe I should start working like the shit bag Big Blue believes I am. Come in late, two hour lunch, gym at about 2, go home after the gym...

Can verify. AFPC turned off some MAF IPs’ orders to T-38 PIT just a couple days prior to RNLTD. That was last week. This week apparently it’s fights on. And yet the AF wonders why it’s losing 10 yr guys.

We're conflating grievances here. They could give him a T-6 to SPS, problem solved. No meltdown, no waiver needed, no PCS expenditure loss, wifiey can still be assistant DA (jesus how many times did he mention that, it was like watching one of Khalessi's minions announce all her titles on GOT). As to the rest? Get a fvcking grip man. I have a story too. Many of us have a story of personal grievance in this line of work. Life's not fair, we make lemons with the batch we get pelted in the head with. I didn't go on a whiny bender on the internet about it. I have family challenges too, one I seriously considered quitting the military over. Jesus T-1 driving Christ do you AD folks not have better friends to commiserate to than the internet? Or is this a millennial thing, and it pains me to say that as technically I'm the oldest year of a millennial. Here's a pro-tip for that guy: Fighter units in the ANG/AFRC pick up separating heavy drivers every now and then as a consequence of circumstances/PFA/et al. Having a god damn melt down and posting it forever on the internet, where you allocute to still having a fundamental chip on your shoulder about legitimately sucking hind teet in ENJJPT and/or not getting what you wanted out of UPT 6-9 years ago, is not the starting point to a clean transition to the next chapter of your flying career. Here's another pro tip: There's a metric fvck ton of AFRC UPT drivers on this board (and FB). Ask me how I know. Guess who's also at the hiring boards for said FTG. Our main source of guys is separating AD UPT cats. Don't drink and internet,folks, though it may be a bit late for some.

Make that two of us.

Completely agree re: the do more with less. Also interested in how much of this is an “uphill both ways” emotional bias. I’m sure if I could instruct 10 years ago me today I’d be disappointed. (Despite being the best pilot I know, obviously.) To try to cut through some of that: does anybody have a historical example of UPT producing a better product than the year before?

Forgot to mention I'm not AD, just typical M-day National Guard, no bonuses or tuition assistance. I heard back from the unit I was offered a UPT slot with in 2014 and it sounds encouraging! Sounds like I may not have to re-apply for a board interview and just get a conditional release from the Army Guard.

You do.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/07/the-no-harm-no-foul-pt-test-air-force-considering-practice-examinations-to-lessen-stress/ AF is considering letting you choose if the score counts. If you failed, and you’re not overdue, it’s ‘practice.’

KC is a ing badass. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

So have many C-130 dudes, just replace weapons with airdrop; 5 C-130 guys who would’ve probably stayed in the Air Force just got their orders turned off to 38s.

I kind of liked the death spiral... When I got to the herk the crew/tail ratio was 2.XX. I'm sure you're shocked that isn't the case anymore... which magically fixes the problem every couple of years. We are running out of numbers to lower though... For the CAF brethren: Provide the manning to train them or stop bitching about the quality of IPs. It's your fault. Blame the enterprise or the culture for the separations.. but in the end it's the CAF's fault for having your people punch at higher rates than others. MAF's take rates are finally below the CAF's, so we aren't doing better... just took a few more years. To the MAF brethren: Suck less at training CAF folks. Brace for the suck because the quality getting to the MAF is bad too. Don't bitch at CAF when we get bad pilots... or a 3 page thread will ensue.

That’s my point exactly. Mobility guys don’t do that? I’m not a Herk Guy, but they either have the worlds greatest PR machine or they do some pretty tactical stuff. Same with Gunships, MC-130, C-17 etc. If a bomber pilot is somehow up to snuff, then those other guys should not be excluded. I’m willing to concede that not all 11M’s have the natural ability to get back into the FM and tactical after years going from A to B on autopilot. Those individuals shouldn’t make it through PIT. The more I think about it, this seems like a lot of easing off of standards and hoping it will work out in the end. If that’s due to pressure from leadership, inadequate syllabus, or something else, I don’t know. I also went through UPT and IFF 10 years ago at KSPS and I know that place is a bit of an outlier when it comes to syllabus anyway. I wish you UPT bros luck.

You’re clueless. This is precisely what is NOT happening. I left white jet world 5 years ago and kids at CRs were regularly getting reinstated. Ones who should be washed out are simply given more training and the can is kicked down the road. In order to washout, they’re just not falling short of MIF. They’re falling short of safe. Above safe but below MIF - congrats, here are your wings. At follow-on training, we don’t have time to re-teach them basics like cross check and tac form. There’s simply not enough room in the syllabus. If they can multitask, employ, stay visual and be OK at form, they’ll pass. Still, the skillset we’re seeing now is below where it has been in the past. My unit is Guard - we’re not under the “graduate them” mandate of AD and we are washing kids out. The last one had no business even making it to FTU. He created dangerous situations every other flight. I reached back to some bros at IFF and they reluctantly admitted he was a problem child and there was debate on washing him out. They also admit that if they washed out everyone they would have 10 years ago, the grad rates would be abysmal due to what they’re getting. If you thing UPT is holding the line and follow-on training is where the ball is getting dropped, you live in a dream world.

IFF is not about employing an airplane as a weapons system. It’s an admin course that teaches you how to speak/do the basics of being a fighter wingman. Hell, it’s right in the title of the course (fundamentals). Even the end of block sorties are demonstration of proficiency, not expertise. I agree the FTU shouldn’t be spending time on that. I vehemently agree that Brabus shouldn’t have to do that during MQT in a Viper. And also, if you think the basics aren’t important in a fighter, I’ve got 2 friends that were great fighter pilots that are no longer with us after making a simple mistake flying instruments. I don’t know anyone who has been shot down in the last decade and a half. To me, if a guy drops a fighter and makes it to the FTU, that’s more on IFF if they don’t like the product. Blaming UPT and scapegoating non 11F for a bad product at FTU and/or in the CAF is off-base IMO. Lastly, how on God’s green earth is a B-52/B-2 guy droning around in the bozosphere dropping BOC or launching SOW “good enough” to teach in a T-38 but some 11M/11S that’s been doing tons of actual hand flying in challenging environments not? No offense to the BUFF community, but I don’t get it.

chicken or the egg kinda thing ain't it? In any event, from my experience doing this gig for the last 9 years, MAF guys end up fine but require non-insignificant extra time and mentorship on flight lead admin and tac proficiency, let alone debriefing to what the hell is going on, before they're in a position to be able to instruct and supervise to the same level when undertaking undergraduates. Problem is it's mostly MAF, and FAIPS on a heavily diluted UPT run, that we are getting to PIT. The syllabus was legitimately not built for this. It was built for alpha-track 11Fs doing a quick proficiency spin up and off we go. FAIPS also had the benefit of more proficiency in UPT phase III, so the extra time was devoted to the instructional skillset. I've seen their evolution from both the UPT and PIT perspective. They end up fine for the most part. The problem is that we don't have the hours or the syllabi to provide that extra training.So predictably, the product suffers both on the UPT side and the IP development side. And the B-courses complain, it's not complicated. But senior leadership won't hear of it. IMO People have died already as a result of this greening up, but it won't be acknowledged. More will die as a direct consequence of this manning/quality issue, before the trend is reversed. As to the dismissal of the rigors of phase III to the degree that it proverbially doesn't matter and the ladies at the CDC can do it? That's just more of the same chasm that creates the animosity against 11Fs in the first place. The manning realities are here, the goal is to move forward and catch these guys up so they can provide a phase III product worth a damn. Currently we are not meeting standards, and the B-courses are paying the bill in the end. It's not an insurmountable problem, but cutting hours and syllabus events in the manner we're doing is not working. Senior AF is not interested in that answer, so we will continue failing the product. Nothing to see here. I digress. Everybody stay safe out there, not all the sea turtles will make it to the ocean on account of this, politically incorrect as it may be. G'luck.

Are we talking the new 19AF/CC that has started turning away non 11F/B guys in the 38 PIT pipeline? The hard truth is that they haven’t paid their fair share of the AETC bill in years, so while on the one hand I feel their pain/frustration, the cynical side of me doesn’t feel bad when they all bitch about the quality of their wingmen. I know, I know, #pilotshortage #nobodysleft. It’s obviously a symptom of a much larger AF problem.

Still doesn’t mean everyone can teach it all equally. Plenty of 11M guys can figure it out, and there are some 11F/B shitbag IPs. Always have been. Overall though, the trend holds true. What did we do before the T-1? Gave kids about an extra hundred hours and actually washed out the shitty ones. Don’t do either anymore because...numbers. IFF isn’t the nut-cutter it used to be, either. The whole pipeline is fvcked because of poor personnel management for over a decade. These are all just symptoms of an illness.

Quick story: U-2 bud does his T-38 check ride shortly after arriving at Beale, and flies it with the DO. My bud doesn't wear his nomex gloves. Examiner/DO debriefs him, and at the end says "you violated such-and-such regulation by not wearing the gloves, and therefore I will Q-3 you. It's a safety of flight issue." Bud says: "how could you tell?" Examiner/DO: "I saw it when you took the runway as you lowered your canopy." Bud: "so you intentionally allowed me to do the takeoff and the entire flight without correcting me on the spot for what you perceived was a serious safety violation? I'll take the Q-3... fair enough. However, you and I are going to go talk to the Squadron commander, and then the OG commander and I'm going to ask THEM if YOU should also be Q-3.". My bud ended up with a Q-1.

I know a handful of 11M's that got orders cancelled to T-38 assignments last week because of the previously discussed 2-star's decision. [obligatory]"And they wonder why people are bailing at record rates"[/obligatory]

In some cases I’m sure that’s an accurate statement. However, also realize that in this era of “everyone gets a fighter”, most of these kids graduating today need to understand they’re lucky to be in that position (many would have been flying RPAs 8-10 years ago!), and many were gonna struggle in IFF regardless. It’s a challenging program even for the students who did very well in UPT. UPT has been so watered down compared to what it once was. And it’s not these students’ fault; it’s just a byproduct of bad choices made by subpar leadership cutting corners to create pilots faster. Edit for emphasis on #pilotshortage

Different qualification? No. Different aptitude to teach guys going to fighters? Yes. I know, hurt feelings and all...but the feedback I got after leaving that world was overwhelmingly that the 135 and C-17 peeps just didn’t have the same skillset in tactical, LL, FM and getting kids ready for IFF. It’s not an insult, it’s a recognition of reality.

Congrats on the retirement! You’ll never have to worry about this kind of stuff ever again. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

We need to have about 10-20 General Officers go back and be Squadron Commanders again so they can understand how ed up everything is. O-6’s don’t even understand how jacked we are...how can you lead when you don’t understand what is wrong. It’s not even worth trying to explain it to them either, no one stays put in a position of power long enough to care. Yeah, definitely get the feedback (why, I honestly have no idea), ~Bendy

You could do far worse than to “end up” in a bomber...