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AF: “We have a massive pilot shortage! They’re leaving in droves. We need more money to fix this.” Congress: “You’re not getting more money, and It’s beginning to sound like you’ve been mismanaging your organization...” AF: “Actually, we just fixed everything. We’re good now.”

Guys chill, relax. This has been in the works for at least 5 years. Everyone knows the product is worse. No one is even trying to debate that. The Air Force has realized that they are never going to be able to retain the pilots that they need. They made a conscious effort and even publicized it that they are going to grow out of the retention problem from the bottom. The problem is the pipe is too long to push out as many pilots as they need to grow out of the problem. Who cares about absorption, all they care about is bodies. I sat on countless meetings in T6 land with leadership trying to figure out just how much they can cut to get the very bare minimum Air Force pilot trained. Couple that with massive changes to the pit syllabus and big cutbacks to the simulators required in the instrument phase and you have what you have now. Read the tea leaves what is UPT next all about or the VR experiment going on in Austin? The Air Force has made a clear choice that they need quantity and they don’t care about your idea of quality. I agree that as a fighter pilot you would be able to add more big picture training to the T6 and T38 syllabus. You are fooling yourself though if you think that would magically make a better product. Sheppard is a great case study in that. When I left there were only 2 heavy 38 pilots who both flew 38‘s in UPT. Yet magically we were still getting complaints in the T6 world from IFF and the FTU that Sheppard grads were not living up to the standard of basic formation skills in follow on training. This has so much more to do than just a bunch of heavy guys trying to teach guys in 38‘s how to stay in position and do tac turns, but I guarantee the Air Force will use that excuse on why we need more fighter pilots and completely overlooked the fact that training has been cut by over 40%. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

You do.

I don't think Gazmo is a long term mloa type of guy. Maybe he was saying that he liked working a total of 4 days this month for 88 hours of pay as a line holder, like I'm doing this month 🤣.

The airdroppers in the different communities do a fair amount large, multi-ship (often dissimilar aircraft) formations to an objective area, via a LL, threat react/get the giant gaggle back together, to mass drop on DZ then min close an LZ. I think a lot of CAF guys discredit the MAF since they simply don’t have a good understanding of what some of them truly do. Sure, the physical flying is different, but there is a big picture/airmanship/SA skillset that is developed and is transferable when teaching a student in UPT, regardless of airframe (T-6, T-1, T-38). I think heavy guys get a bad wrap when it comes to “aptitude” to teach as compared to fighter dudes, and that’s because the MAF as an institution largely doesn’t value good instructional ability (even flying skill in general) in their pilots. They care more about winning quarterly awards and your next PRF than any sort of proficiency in an airplane, and it’s sad. All of the non 11Fs that are instructing these days came from the 2010-13 year timeframe when most fighter FTUs were backed up. The fact is most of them would have flown fighters too if the AF hadn’t screwed the pooch on fighter manning. It’s not these guys’ fault. I’m thoroughly convinced that when someone pins on their first star (and arguably the chicken for some), all common sense in decision making goes out the window in favor of self-preservation when trying to chase that next star.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/son-brings-vietnam-war-fighter-pilots-lost-remains-home-to-texas

Interesting. May be a Tapatalk thing, but everytime I post, it cuts me off half way through. I am starting to think my wife runs this forum...

The past UPT instructors I've known were good, and their instruction was far from inept. They worked very hard to produce the best product they could within the constraints of the syllabus... despite poor "management" from the leadership... and operating in a system where their hands may not be tied, but are often restricted. I'm no fighter pilot by any stretch of the imagination, and simply do not know what basic "stuff" you are referring to. However, in all facets of flying I've done... as well as a myriad of other non-aviation hobbies... "the basics" need to be revisited. The fundamental skills will atrophy and it affects the more advanced skills. I would imagine that a graduating IFF pilot needs to apply "those basics" to their initial training (and even continuation training) in the F-16/F-22/F-15/etc, and adapt them from what they did in the short T-38 IFF course.

Yeah VMFA cause f-16s have ALL the SA IN THE WORLD when they fly around and join a stack. Stop hating on the line UPT IPs (LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE) this is a problem created by big blue. Period. And to echo what someone else said you can thank the maf for sending their dudes to upt To fill slots that the CAF is unable to fill so maybe you should be grateful and not so god damn self righteous. 1 mile LAB it’s not hard. Your IFF SPs have met that MIF. The rest is on you 11Fs.

Problem solved, right? https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2019-08-08/air-force-believes-it-has-stemmed-the-pilot-shortage

You need to work on your Root Cause analysis.

Yes... that is what I was trying to say and it cut off half my post bragging that I have only worked 6 days in the last 30 with 3 nights away from home (and some of those days I was home by lunch time). I think it is a government conspiracy! No - definitely not a long term MLOA type of guy here. I barely remember how to set my alarm anymore. I love it though when my unit tries to sell a temp AGR tour with, "Hey, if you ever want a break from the airline life, we can get you some orders!". YGTBSM. Yes, please give me back those computer screen migrain headaches I got rid of. Oh and those meetings. I love meetings!!! Send me to lots of worthless meetings so I can't get $hit done all day. One last thing; start lots of fires for me to put out before I get there because I miss those also! 22 days per month too! The toughest decision I have now after getting to "work" and going through the KCM is - mocha latte or Jamba Juice?

Only at Klamath

No disagreement from me Bashi. I’m simply saying the large reduction in actual flying is affecting all stages of the pipeline. I left Luke back in the day with almost 100 hours and no TGP qual. Now, we give them TGP, NVG, introduce more weapons (PW3, 39, 54, etc) and kick them out the door with about 69 hours. Flying has been cut everywhere and the basic airmanship at all levels of training suffers as a result? Different backgrounds of IPs are far less important than the reduction of flying. There’s no doubt 11Fs have some basics like Form and FM down as second nature, and 11Ms do not. Unfortunately there just aren’t enough 11Fs to go around. I was teaching at Luke when the BRAC & POM 10 shit went down - closing FTU squadrons all over. We joked about how 11Fs would be screwed in 6-9 years. I’ve heard our F-16 manning in the 07 year group is something like 17 peeps due to the FTU backup of ‘09-‘12, with 08 and 09 only marginally better. It’s weird what happens when you screw with pipelines and drop hardly any vipers for a few years. Who could have seen it coming? We all did, but the crap leadership didn’t care about that nearly as much as pinning on their next star. Edit to add: good on IPs for sending kids that deserve it to CRs, but that’s pointless if there’s a 99% chance of reinstatement. Even if it’s the WG/CC’s call to not wash people out, he’s still part of UPT as a whole...which is graduating a degraded product.

When a T-38 student graduates from SUPT, he can fly instruments and formation per CTS as directed in syllabus. If said student magically forgets how to do these things at IFF, they should be washed out. Don't make this into an argument regarding the quality of instruction because a fucking monkey could develop these skills even in the shortened syllabus using YouTube and some words of encouragement. The burden of training FIGHTER pilots rests soundly on the shoulders of the IFF and FTU courses. The commanders of those units are also fighter pilots. You (11Fs in training command) are the gatekeepers of your community, choke yourself if your wingman can't figure out how to fly wings level parallel to flight lead in the ops squadrons because the buck was passed by your peers several times over.

The point of IFF and FTU isn’t teaching the basics that UPT was supposed to spend a year teaching students. It’s employing an aircraft as a weapons system. IFF is ~15 .9 flights at Shep. Neither IFF or FTU have the sorties or time to carry the load for inept UPT instruction. They spend about 2 weeks with 6 flights to get you a form 8 and should never have to touch on that stuff again. It’s weapons and tactics from then on.

Quick story: U-2 bud does his T-38 check ride shortly after arriving at Beale, and flies it with the DO. My bud doesn't wear his nomex gloves. Examiner/DO debriefs him, and at the end says "you violated such-and-such regulation by not wearing the gloves, and therefore I will Q-3 you. It's a safety of flight issue." Bud says: "how could you tell?" Examiner/DO: "I saw it when you took the runway as you lowered your canopy." Bud: "so you intentionally allowed me to do the takeoff and the entire flight without correcting me on the spot for what you perceived was a serious safety violation? I'll take the Q-3... fair enough. However, you and I are going to go talk to the Squadron commander, and then the OG commander and I'm going to ask THEM if YOU should also be Q-3.". My bud ended up with a Q-1.

So how can we say we have "stemmed" the pilot shortage??? Air Force Stemmed Its Pilot Crisis, Chief Says A widespread shortage threatening the core of the Air Force’s mission appears under control

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/08/07/the-no-harm-no-foul-pt-test-air-force-considering-practice-examinations-to-lessen-stress/ AF is considering letting you choose if the score counts. If you failed, and you’re not overdue, it’s ‘practice.’

We all want to talk about the nuts and bolts of quality slip, but you hit the nail on the head... "do more with less... okay now do even more with even less" is just making things worse and worse. I firmly believe that a lot of well-to-do colonels and stars out there are racking their brains about how to make it work but the fact of the matter is they can't, and they don't even realize it yet because they've been a 'rock star' at every level so far and they think they can do the impossible. This mess needs to be fixed by congressional level changes. We've been burning cash in the desert for years, wearing our people out (and our iron) we're trillions of dollars in debt and we're surprised that everything is falling apart now? Yet here we stand still trying to do more with less because telling the truth and saying, "Hey this is stupid we can't do this we need way more resources" doesn't get you the job or the promotion... it gets you the door. So time and time again we're following shiny pennies that over promise and under produce. AETC T38 land is a pressure cooker right now, trying to produce more pilots with a less experienced instructor corps in less time without sacrificing quality. Do more, with less. Feels a bit like rats jumping off a sinking ship to me.

I think you’ve forgotten an important possibility there.

Don’t like 11Ms at UPT? Great, don’t take ‘em. Leave those dudes in the MAF so we have somebody left to fill all of these missions after I’m out on the street. It’s not like we have spare 11Ms for y’all to bitch about all day.

Valid points. If a UPT grad shows to IFF and can’t fly instruments, then that person shouldn’t have made it out of the instrument phase. If IFF instructors are dealing with that and not rate fight mechanics or whatever, that’s a foul.

The irony of your post ending in "I like working" in a thread about scoffing at airline work via MLOA, is must definitively not lost on me. Freudian slip if there ever was one, even if "tapatalk did it". 😄😉

Whatever you say dude. You left the white jet world 5 years ago and it sounds like you did so with a chip on your shoulder. Of the T-38 CRs I have loose knowledge about, all but the internationals were eliminated or deferred to other training pipelines. I can't speak for all of UPT but I know at our base the standard is just that. You clearly believe that a large portion of recent T-38 graduates did so without meeting CTS. Maybe it's time to re-blue and show us how to actually grade these kids and demonstrate what honest CTS looks like. Side note: since when did IFF students get Form 8s?

Meh. Replace release weapon with airdrop and it sounds like a local herk sortie minus the 4 ship formation low levels and formation tac arrivals. A better argument is they flew 38s in UPT and therefor have relevant experience.

You’re clueless. This is precisely what is NOT happening. I left white jet world 5 years ago and kids at CRs were regularly getting reinstated. Ones who should be washed out are simply given more training and the can is kicked down the road. In order to washout, they’re just not falling short of MIF. They’re falling short of safe. Above safe but below MIF - congrats, here are your wings. At follow-on training, we don’t have time to re-teach them basics like cross check and tac form. There’s simply not enough room in the syllabus. If they can multitask, employ, stay visual and be OK at form, they’ll pass. Still, the skillset we’re seeing now is below where it has been in the past. My unit is Guard - we’re not under the “graduate them” mandate of AD and we are washing kids out. The last one had no business even making it to FTU. He created dangerous situations every other flight. I reached back to some bros at IFF and they reluctantly admitted he was a problem child and there was debate on washing him out. They also admit that if they washed out everyone they would have 10 years ago, the grad rates would be abysmal due to what they’re getting. If you thing UPT is holding the line and follow-on training is where the ball is getting dropped, you live in a dream world.

This is my surprised face. Then again, it doesn’t change anything at my base, because when the policy changed to allow the squadrons to take care of PT testing, Wing leadership decided to “uphold standards” by continuing to use a Fitness Assessment Cell (ie the squadrons were not allowed to administer the test, there was literally zero change from the previous procedures). Which is a roundabout way of the wing cc telling the Sq commanders “I don’t trust you or your people.”

IFF is not about employing an airplane as a weapons system. It’s an admin course that teaches you how to speak/do the basics of being a fighter wingman. Hell, it’s right in the title of the course (fundamentals). Even the end of block sorties are demonstration of proficiency, not expertise. I agree the FTU shouldn’t be spending time on that. I vehemently agree that Brabus shouldn’t have to do that during MQT in a Viper. And also, if you think the basics aren’t important in a fighter, I’ve got 2 friends that were great fighter pilots that are no longer with us after making a simple mistake flying instruments. I don’t know anyone who has been shot down in the last decade and a half. To me, if a guy drops a fighter and makes it to the FTU, that’s more on IFF if they don’t like the product. Blaming UPT and scapegoating non 11F for a bad product at FTU and/or in the CAF is off-base IMO. Lastly, how on God’s green earth is a B-52/B-2 guy droning around in the bozosphere dropping BOC or launching SOW “good enough” to teach in a T-38 but some 11M/11S that’s been doing tons of actual hand flying in challenging environments not? No offense to the BUFF community, but I don’t get it.

I get what you’re saying huggy, but as one example, me having to bust a guy on an MQT ride because he literally can’t fly his jet safely AND employ it, and this is after he has passed UPT, IFF, and FTU. That is an epic systemic failure. I don’t think any of us blame the bros on the line, it’s the SQ/CCs on up who prioritize green slides over product quality, who refuse to acknowledge the problem, who ultimately are responsible for the bullshit product they churn out today (and its not that young guys suck, it’s that they are not getting the instruction and learning opportunity they need). I’m not saying all new guys are terrible, but there’s an alarmingly high rate of new guys who absolutely would not have made it to the CAF years ago,

State source. Is this an installation thing? Literally just had a discussion with the AF-level policy author on this exact subject; no such policy change was mentioned. And they’d have to convince CSAF to crawfish on his guidance. Unlikely.

chicken or the egg kinda thing ain't it? In any event, from my experience doing this gig for the last 9 years, MAF guys end up fine but require non-insignificant extra time and mentorship on flight lead admin and tac proficiency, let alone debriefing to what the hell is going on, before they're in a position to be able to instruct and supervise to the same level when undertaking undergraduates. Problem is it's mostly MAF, and FAIPS on a heavily diluted UPT run, that we are getting to PIT. The syllabus was legitimately not built for this. It was built for alpha-track 11Fs doing a quick proficiency spin up and off we go. FAIPS also had the benefit of more proficiency in UPT phase III, so the extra time was devoted to the instructional skillset. I've seen their evolution from both the UPT and PIT perspective. They end up fine for the most part. The problem is that we don't have the hours or the syllabi to provide that extra training.So predictably, the product suffers both on the UPT side and the IP development side. And the B-courses complain, it's not complicated. But senior leadership won't hear of it. IMO People have died already as a result of this greening up, but it won't be acknowledged. More will die as a direct consequence of this manning/quality issue, before the trend is reversed. As to the dismissal of the rigors of phase III to the degree that it proverbially doesn't matter and the ladies at the CDC can do it? That's just more of the same chasm that creates the animosity against 11Fs in the first place. The manning realities are here, the goal is to move forward and catch these guys up so they can provide a phase III product worth a damn. Currently we are not meeting standards, and the B-courses are paying the bill in the end. It's not an insurmountable problem, but cutting hours and syllabus events in the manner we're doing is not working. Senior AF is not interested in that answer, so we will continue failing the product. Nothing to see here. I digress. Everybody stay safe out there, not all the sea turtles will make it to the ocean on account of this, politically incorrect as it may be. G'luck.

They most certainly are more qualified for the 38 job. I’m not saying that someone who didn’t fly fighters can’t do the job, they obviously can and have been for a while now. However, the skills you develop in a fighter community apply much more to 38s than the heavy world. The pilots who have thousands of hours flying at 100agl in tac formations, or maneuvering air to air, while managing everything else that goes into flying a fighter will have a much easier time teaching the fighter centric aspects of UPT. Tactical formations, low level flying, single seat CRM, etc is all second nature, whereas other communities will have to spend the time it requires developing the skills to effectively fly it, and then experiencing it enough to accurately debrief what they’re doing wrong. Developing the geometry sight pictures of multiple maneuvering aircraft, and assessing what is going wrong with it, is one of the hardest parts to do well. I don’t think it should be limited to only 11F, but there is a definite return on investment if they aren’t required in the CAF. Then there’s the guys who care about instilling the douchey “fighter mindset” and all that BS that I don’t believe in.

Whatever did they do before the T-1s when everyone went 38s? Nothing you do in 38s is remotely tactical or relevant to the skills required to fly any tactical platform in combat. Pilot training is about teaching kids to land and build airmanship, skills relevant to any community. The only reason they split tracks was to extend the service life of the 38. That being said, I’m sure it is important to have your share of 11Bs and 11Fs in 38s to make sure you are getting guys ready for IFF / the B course but there is no reason not to have 11Ms considering the manning crisis.

I got a similar email today from my airline... oh wait, no I didn’t. Everyone do yourself and your family a favor and loudly vote with your feet. And by loudly, I mean tell everyone the exact reasons you are leaving. I truly believe this is the only way us little people can make a positive change. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

If I were a guessing man, I’d say they manage records...

Yup, was up there most of the week camping under the airplane.

I'm an old retired fart, but I had a great Air Force Experience a couple of weeks ago. A client of my wife found out that this couple had a kid who was all ate up about flying, flew flight sims for hours, but had never been in the cockpit of a real airplane. So I volunteered to give the kid an incentive ride in my might Piper Warrior. It turned out he was a junior in college, majoring in mechanical engineering. He wanted to know all about the Air Force and wanted to hear my war stories. Of course I cleverly managed to never get shot at, but I shared some 'peace stories' with him while we stopped for a hundred dollar hamburger. Anyway, my Warrior is based at Austin Bergstrom (KAUS), and we get a lot of military transient airplanes. As we were putting the Warrior back in the hanger a black T-38 showed up in the pattern and flew a couple of overheads and then landed. As we started to walk back to the Signature terminal the Black 'BB' coded T-38 was parking right in front of us. My pax asked me if he could take a picture of this T-38. Of course I knew that nobody would care if someone took a picture of a T-38, but I said 'Why don't we ask the pilots'? So I walked over as they were climbing out of the cockpit, introduced us as 'once and future Air Force guys' and asked if we could take a picture of their jet. It was a looker I'll say that. To make a long story short, the crew were two U-2 pilots. Of course they let us take all the pictures we wanted, but more important they asked my young friend what he wanted to do in the Air Force, and he told them he wanted to be a pilot. They spent about 15 minutes telling him about pilot training, suggesting the best paths to a commission for him, and in general talking up the fun of being in the Air Force. I'm sure the guys were probably a bit tired, and in a hurry to get to Sixth Street, but to this young person they were heroes bordering on Living Gods. I really appreciated the time they took and their enthusiasm for my young friends dreams. It reminded me how cool it is that the Air Force sometimes would give you the keys to a jet plane and a gas card, and tell you bring back in one piece next Monday!

She isn’t worth it.

There's still a few of us left in the B-1, B-52, F-15E, RC-135, and AC-130 (to name a few).

Go on....

Ya actually. Every time a 18x er says they are a “pilot” I have no problem pointing to their wings and correcting them. I’ve been stuck in drones for 3 years, the 18x product is not a pilot. It’s a glorified system manager. Do they bring a lot to the current fight? F ya they do, probably more than 95% of the current manned platforms, but do they risk life/limb? Or have the training manned dudes have? Hell no. They can’t transit frome point a to b in the AOR without having a published route, don’t get me started on system knowledge. Take that weak ass shit out of here.

Why do you care? Who wants to live in a state who elects Ilhan Omar? Even a viper wouldn't give me enough incentive to move there.

There is nowhere near the level of SA and understanding that a bomber pilot/crew has, especially regarding air threats, when conducting any type of large force, deep strike scenario that requires fighter escort when compared to their fighter brethren. I’m sorry if that hurts, but it’s the truth. I witness it every day. And there is nothing particularly difficult with releasing smart weapons, particularly the GPS-guided variety.