Info on Remote Tours

[scoobs]

Which airframes have remote tours and where are they located?

Do heavy drivers have remote tours?

[Beaver]

F-16's do remotes to Kunsan and Osan in South Korea.

[Guest RoninCo]

I know that Osan has C-12s also if you are looking from the heavy side. That is a remote. Hope this helps!

-RoninCo

[Spartacus]

I have heard that in the Air Force you are required to do a remote tour at some point in your career. Is this usually without your family? Can you request to do one where your family can come with you? Is it normally a year long like Korea?

[Guest Walter_Sobchak]

It all depends on your AFSC. If you have an AMC patch on your flightsuit, you may never be permanently based overseas (though AMC guys definately get their fair share of time outside the CONUS). If you're a fighter guy, then it's a safe bet that over a long enough timeline you'll be going remote. Typically both flying and nonflying remote short tours are one year unaccompanied. There are some strange ducks out there though - for instance there are some 2-year accompanied tours to Osan. Those still have remote tour credit but I'm not so sure about short tour credit. If you go to the AFPC assignments web page, the different assignment teams there should have something posted with a more in-depth scoop on what different MWSs can expect.

[Guest AFwife62406]

Is it guaranteed that every pilot will have to do a remote tour during their career? If not, approximately what percentage of pilots do go on remote tours?

[Scooter14]

Question #1 - No. I never went. There were a few out there for RC crewdogs, maybe 3 a year or so. There are much more for A-10 and F-16 guys. However, just talked to an AD friend of mine today. He told me the number of remote 1 yr tours is going to go way up. I'm in the Guard now, so it has little effect on me, so I don't know much about it.

Typically, if there are no volunteers, the "high time" on station guy gets it. Whoever's been at that base longest, at least that's how they do it in the tanker and recce world.

Question #2 - Depends on the airframe. From 97-02, I knew about 5 total people who went remote from the RC community (pilots, navs, EWOs) from the cast of thousands at Offutt. I don't know numbers, but with the F-16 and A-10 wings in Korea, I'm sure it's a much higher percentage. And these #s don't take into account what my friend said today.

[Herk Driver]

From what I know, the fighter guys typically do an ALPHA tour or two at some point in their careers. This is much more prevalent among fighters than heavies. Most heavies don't do remotes. I've been doing this for nearly 14 years now and no remote for me. I have several friends who have done remotes but most chose to do it. As Scooter said it depends on the airframe. There are alot more things going on right now, like 365 TDYs that are going around outside the fighter world though. These have become more common place since the GWOT started.

[Toro]

Originally posted by AFwife62406:

Is it guaranteed that every pilot will have to do a remote tour during their career?

No. I know plenty of O-5s and O-6s who have never done a remote. I also know one O-5 who has been unfortunate enough to have done two. It's all about timing, your airframe, and your duty history. A lot of instructors in the FTU with me become "hot" for a remote if they have never been stationed overseas. Guys who have been stateside their entire career and are approaching/at the rank of major become very susceptible to a remote.

Originally posted by AFwife62406:

If not, approximately what percentage of pilots do go on remote tours?

An AFPC type is probably the only person who could give you a precise answer. I would estimate that around 50-69% of F-15E crews go remote. We are told to expect a remote at some point in our career. Some guys volunteer for remotes early on (get it done while they're still single or while the kids are young) and others try to stiff-arm it as long as possible.

Originally posted by Herk Driver:

the fighter guys typically do an ALPHA tour or two at some point in their careers

Realize that ALFA tours can be ("A"LO, "F"AC of the ALFA) but are not necessarily ("L"IFT, "A"ETC) remotes.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

They can't send you remote after an overseas assignment unless you volunteer. That is good and bad. You can end up in a position where they won't give you the overseas assignment you want because you are too ripe for a remote.

Waiting too long to do your remote can put you in a tough spot. I have seen an O-5 with 12.69 months left do his squadron CC change of command and get on an airplane to Korea. I have also seen a major with 9 months of ADSC remaining 7 day opt a remote flying assignment, file separation papers and still get sent to Korea for 8 months (non-flying).

The best way I've seen guys do the remote is show up, hang for a couple months, apply for weapons school, spend 6 months at Nellis, go back, take mid-tour leave, come back from leave and outprocess. Jackpot.

[Guest rotorhead]

Originally posted by Scooter14:

Typically, if there are no volunteers, the "high time" on station guy gets it. Whoever's been at that base longest, at least that's how they do it in the tanker and recce world.

The high time on station guy had other attributes that made him the hit COMPARED TO HIS BROTHERS IN HIS COMMUNITY WORLDWIDE. There's a lot of misinformation and deception about remotes. There are many folks that complain about how AFPC "screwed" them with a remote. Behind the scenes, they asked for it. We had folks that were eligible for JOIN SPOUSE, yet in their "desires" they wrote "station me AWAY from my spouse"...both had to say "station us together" or we didn't. We had other folks (no join spouse situation) ask for a remote so that they could get a guaranteed follow on assignment. Folks could be stationed at base x for 3 years, take a remote to base y for a year, then follow on back to base x. Kids stay in school for 7 years straight...spouse keeps house and job for 7 years straight, etc. Publically, however, they got "screwed" by AFPC.

When AFPC needs to fill a remote, there are many rules and procedures that go into effect. First, the AOs will look at the dreamsheets for vols. If no vols, they call throughout the community combing for vols. If still no vols, then they run a computer program. They have to query a select time on station (like everyone with 2.5 years TOS by date x), query a select rank and select AFSC, then the computer spits out the order of folks with those parameters (in order of who has the oldest dates). They cannot legally force a captain on a remote when the slot calls for a major. They cannot legally force a C-130 guy on a remote that calls for a C-17 guy. HOWEVER, there are some slots that call for "Airlift-General" and other vague backgrounds. They cannot force a non-patch wearer on a slot that calls for a copilot, etc. REMEMBER, though, that there are manager (not-active flying) remotes that call for "Rated Major". Pretty wide net.

Are folks skipped? Sure. But the reasons have to be solid (e.g., the first guy on the list was just selected to be the CC at sqdn x, or the top guy vol'd for a remote last week, or the top guy is already on assignment, etc.).

AFPC knows that if person A is skipped, and person B is skipped, and person C is tapped for the non-vol remote, then person C (and person C's WIFE) will be on the phone within 10 seconds crying FOUL. They don't know the entire puzzle.

Final advice. YOU PICK WHEN YOU WANT YOUR REMOTE, OR AFPC WILL DO IT FOR YOU. In other words, vol for that remote to Korea your 2nd tour, or AFPC will pick you for the remote to 'Stan your 5th tour. Later in life, you've got spouse issues, kid issues, parent issues, and issue issues.

[Guest homewith4]

When my husband went to the Kun, he left when my first boy was only 28 days old...did that stink, you bet. Since I only had an infant to deal with, I traveled twice to Korea and then he was home for mid-tour. I could also live with my parents w/o disrupting their life too much. Our longest seperation for the year was 2 1/2 months.

When I try to imagine him going now with two boys in high school, I cringe. My two elementary age daughters miss him when he goes away for a weekend.

"2" what rotorhead said "YOU PICK WHEN YOU WANT YOUR REMOTE." Is there ever a great time to be away from your husband for a year...NO, but we did it at the best time for our family.

[Guest AFwife62406]

I really appreciate all this great information. Two more questions - it is true that spouses can go with AD on remotes if the length of the remote time is doubled, correct? If he volunteers for a remote, are our chances of getting an overseas assignment after that higher or lower and is that affected at all if I go with him on the remote?

[Guest homewith4]

standard answer...it's depends. There are remote tours that the family is not permitted to go on, and there are some where the family can go. If the family can go, to Osan in Korea for example, you must ask and get approval and then the tour length will be 2 years. If to Kunsan in Korea, spouses do not go and it is 1 year.

Often, but not always, you have a choice of assignments after a remote. Of course, with the caveat based on what is available. After his remote in Korea, we went to Misawa, Japan. That was fine with us, but not our first choice. That is where an operational F-16 assignment was available. They can not involuntarily select you from overseas to overseas. But if you want to stay overseas, you can ask for that.

All this info is from a while ago, so it may have changed in more recent times.

[ 04. September 2006, 10:31: Message edited by: homewith4 ]

[Toro]

Originally posted by homewith4:

standard answer...it's depends. There are remote tours that the family is not permitted to go on, and there are some where the family can go. If the family can go, to Osan in Korea for example, you must ask and get approval and then the tour length will be 2 years. If to Kunsan in Korea, spouses do not go and it is 1 year.

Slight addition here. If the tour is accompanied, then the length will be extended to two years. If the service member chooses not officially go accompanied, but brings his family (brings them on his own dime - no medical or other benefits), then the tour remains a year. This can only be done with tours that are allowed as accompanied (I have a WSO bud doing this right now in Korea).

[brabus]

So if you go to Korea, you can bring your family on your own dime, but they lose tricare/family benefits while in Korea? So point is you need to have private healthcare for them if deciding to do this?

[Guest juliecole]

We have had friends faced with dilemna when going getting a remote to Crete. There was minimal medical care for the AD people there, let alone family memebers. It is my knowledge that family members can not be treated by AF medical clinics and local health care options were sketchy. You can't transfer your tricare to a remote area, but some families have been known to wing it. One of the spouses went with her hubby but there was no children to worry about. Another family had five kids and they couldn't/didn't want to chance it. Also housing options are also limited in remote places, or the AD member is won't get their BAH since there is room for them on base. My opinion; there is a reason (health care issues, social climate) that would make it undesirable for families to accompany on a overseas tours, so that is why there are remotes.

[Guest Mrs Hog]

Lots of great advice on here, but as a general rule of thumb, I think rotorhead wins the prize of the day with this advice:

"Final advice. YOU PICK WHEN YOU WANT YOUR REMOTE, OR AFPC WILL DO IT FOR YOU. In other words, vol for that remote to Korea your 2nd tour, or AFPC will pick you for the remote to 'Stan your 5th tour. Later in life, you've got spouse issues, kid issues, parent issues, and issue issues."

It doesn't always work, but almost always does. My guy has been in 25 years, @18 of those in A-10s, and once he got into the hog business (before we were married), he volunteered to knock out a remote tour THREE times, but was told thanks, but we have other plans for you at this time.

It wasn't until he was an 0-5 when our kids were 4, 7 and 16 that he ASKED to be sent remote (group decision on our part because of current family/medical issues). We knew we were hot to be moved mostly because of time on station.

~~Insert funny story here:

After we decided to voluntarily sacrifice him to suck up a remote so that the kids and I could stay put, he talked to everybody up the chain and got their blessings, and then went VFR direct and asked to be worked in on the *big *big *big guys' calendar to talk to him for 'career advice.'

The next day, his phone rings and it isn't the *** Exec or secretary, it's the big guy calling direct. My guy told him what he preferred to do (remote) and why, kicked around a few more options, and that was that.

Not long after that (maybe a month or two), my guys is up at the Ops Group in a meeting, and the OG's Exec sticks his head in the door and tells my guy the WG/CC wants to see him RIGHT NOW.

Hokay...sounded like 'bat outta hell' stuff so he hauls up to the WG bldg., the WG/CC calls him in and has him read the email trail on his screen.

The first one was from the *** saying he has an opening in Korea (remote) and let him know if (my guy) is interested.

WG/CC replied will check and let him know.

The very NEXT email came in TWO minutes later from the *** and all it said was, "I'm still waiting..." :eek:

~~Advice to the spouses out there - if your guy/gal gets tagged or volunteers for a remote and you run into or talk to other 'remote tour widows' who try and tell you, "Oh, it's not really that bad...time really flies and before you know it they're on their way home."

...Just smile politely and take that spouse OFF of your Christmas card list 'acuz it just plain sucks! Yeah, you get through it, keep busy, lean on each other, LOSE YOUR MIND, and all of that, and no spouse I know has ever died from sucking up a remote tour (though marriages have), but don't kid yourself or listen to the 'fluff' out there. Maybe if you don't have kids it might be different, I wouldn't know.

A note to the single guys/gals out there...like rotorhead said, knock at least one out before you start a family and you'll at least have somewhat of a 'box checked' or gate around you when the wolves start looking for people to tag.

[itsokimapilot]

Looking to find a remote in the next year or so in order to return back to my current base. Anyone know of any good oddball flying/non-flying remotes out there. Something other than C-12s to Korea or Saudi.

[Guest Swingin_1]

Instructing C-172s and C-208s to IAF trainees at Taji. Nice accommodations, lots of fun flying. That'd be my pick. AFPC has a '365 volunteer' webpage, I am sure it's action packed with obscure jobs.

[Toro]

Something other than C-12s to Korea or Saudi.

Any reason you don't want C-12s to Saudi? I'm there (here) right now and just talked to a couple C-12 pilots last week based out of Dharhan. This place for the most part is a total $hithole and it takes some patience to put up with the customs around here, but there are a ton of perks including pay (combat pay, family separation, tax free), the fact that you're still flying during a remote, very few additional duties, and (generally) a guaranteed follow on. I can't provide many C-12 specifics other than some basics on their missions, but if you want some info on the area and how things run here, send me a PM.

[itsokimapilot]

There's no particular reason I'm looking for something different. I've spent more time in the desert than I care to remember. I've had buddies that have been in the unit in Saudi and Korea. Both assignments sound pretty good and all I want to do is fly. But, I know there are some oddball assignments out there that are just hard to find. I would love to find something in South America or the Pacific. A guy in my unit just went remote to an air station north of Kadena....Awesome. So, I guess I'm fishing for the remote to Australia or Tahiti or Oslo or Santiago. You know, the unattainable assignment.

[Wing Sweep]

Instructing C-172s and C-208s to IAF trainees at Taji. Nice accommodations, lots of fun flying. That'd be my pick. AFPC has a '365 volunteer' webpage, I am sure it's action packed with obscure jobs.

Do you need to be a current IP in your airframe to apply for this? Is it much along the same lines of USAF UPT (i.e. contact, instrument, formation, low level)?

[brickhistory]

A guy in my unit just went remote to an air station north of Kadena....

On Okinawa?

Other than the MWR site (which was a remote, 1 O, a couple of Es, playing Skipper and a couple of Gilligans for the facility) I'm curious as to anything else USAF on the island.

[HeloDude]

Do you need to be a current IP in your airframe to apply for this? Is it much along the same lines of USAF UPT (i.e. contact, instrument, formation, low level)?

Yes, you need to be (or have been) a qualified IP in one airframe or another.

The 172's and 208's are at Kirkuk, not Taji. Here we have the Hueys and Mi-17's.

These 365's count as a remote tour (kind of). You get short tour credit but you don't PCS, which means you still get your BAH since you are technically 'TDY'. You make a a lot more $$$ on 365's than you do on remote tours to Korea (or so I've been told).