USAF / USA / USN / USMC Vision

First, let me say that posting this using UBB is a pain in the A@*!!!!

Second, these are the Standards. What they will waiver (which is probably what you want to know) is inappropriate for me to post. You need to ask them.

Third, these standards are for Applicants. There are different standards for trained aviators.
Standards
Visual Acuity
Pilots
USAF 20/70
USN 20/40
USMC 20/40
USA 20/50

Nav
USAF 20/200
USN correctable to 20/20
USMC correctable to 20/20
USA N/A

Other
USAF 20/200
USN correctable to 20/20
USMC correctable to 20/20
USA 20/400

Refractive Error (any meridian)
Pilot
USAF -1.50 +2.00
USN -1.50 +3.00
USMC -1.50 +3.00
USA -1.50 +3.00

Nav
USAF -2.75 +3.00
USN -8.00 +8.00
USMC -8.00 +8.00
USA N/A

OTHER
USAF -5.50 +5.50
USN -8.00 +8.00
USMC -8.00 +8.00
USA no standard

Pre-PRK (any meridian)
Pilot
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA -6.00 +4.00

Nav
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA n/a

OTHER
USAF -5.50 -1.00
USN -8.00 +6.00
USMC -8.00 +6.00
USA -6.00 +4.00

COLOR VISION
Pilot
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA 10/14 PIP

Nav
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA N/A

OTHER (flight engineer, loadmaster, airborne weapons controller, airborne crypto-linguist, etc.)
USAF 10/14 PIP 1&2
USN 12/14 PIP
USMC 12/14 PIP
USA 10/14 PIP

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What are the requirements for commission (non-flying jobs)? I'm a PharmD student and have considered joining the AF under the health professions scholarship prog, but I'm not sure if my vision is pre-disqualifying.

[ 19. January 2006, 17:14: Message edited by: Kawen ]

The medical requirements for enlisting (officer or enlisted) are in AFI 48-123 Attachment 3.

not trying to call you out rage...but i thought the AF nav (FCIA) PRK pre-op was -8.00 for myopia in any meridian...i'm depending on that!

oh and the air force needs to catch up with the navy on this stuff, -8.00 seems a lot more reasonable for an FCI, don't you think?

and another question regarding vision standards...if they say something is "not waiverable" right on the form to apply for the waiver, does that actually mean that you can't get a waiver for it? or is there some kind of trick?

Spitfire: LOL -- no, -8.00 does not seem a lot more reasonable for FCI!!

Right now it is -5.50 for FCIA (Nav/WSO). We are looking at -8.00.

I make no excuses for our standards. We are higher than the USN/USA on some things and lower on others. We have been a leader in vision for years. As a service, we accept LASIK and even allow some to fly following the procedure (trained aviators, non-ejection seat, pressurized cabin)...the USN does not.

I don't know what form you are talking about so I am hesitant to say when something says it is not waiverable there is a trick that it actually is. If you can be more specific...

The form I was referring to was titled "Photo Refractive Keratotomy Flying Applicant Waiver Criteria Checklist," it's basically the application for the FCI/IA/III PRK waiver.

The first part on the form is for Pre-Operative refractive error. It says in bold that it "Cannot be over +-5.50 for FCI, +-8.00 for FCIA/FCIII in any meridian for any flying duty waiver (No exceptions)."

Then it asks for OD/OS, which is where mine read
OD: - 4.75 - 1.75 x 90
OS: - 4.75 - 1.75 x 100

This is the form the SG used to say I wouldn't be eligible for FCI, but they said according to the form I would be eligible for FCIA assuming I had no other complications. We turned in this form at the same time we applied for the accession PRK waiver (still no word on either one). A number of the forms we had here had discrepencies though so I don't know how much to trust it.

Sorry, cannot comment on a public forum other than to say there is a max above which we will not waiver.

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Spitfire: LOL -- no, -8.00 does not seem a lot more reasonable for FCI!!

Right now it is -5.50 for FCIA (Nav/WSO). We are looking at -8.00.

Rage,
Are we talking about without PRK here? Is that what you meant?

Pre-PRK for USAF Nav is now -8.00.

Don't expect it to get any less restrictive.

Right. The new Navy/USMC contact lens policy is definitely a good deal, but is limited to those with no worse than an uncorrected 20/400 in each eye. This is quite a bit less severe than the -8.00 limit for PRK.

Ref: http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/Nami/WaiverGu...ology.htm#lasik

If I have -4.25, can I get PRK and qualify for pilot duties?

It should be noted that if you had PRK it is automatically disquallifying (regardless of who performed it civilian/Air Force). However, you can get a waiver.

Example, on my FCI, it says disqualified due to PRK, however it provides a positive recommendation for waiver consideration. When I went down to Brooks for MFS, on the form 600 it says disqualifying, however it provides a positive recommendation for the waiver. Thus, AETC/SG approved the waiver and I'm allowed to fly.

This is confusing but it's the way the Air Force does things.

I hope no offense is taken by this, but you're talking to a young punk of a kid. Since I'm not following the -1.00 jargain (my prescription looks something like -3.25;-2.25 - I understand this to mean that my nearsightedness is a -3.25, with and astigmatism of -2.25; varies per eye, so not exact), I'm gonna seek out some more info on this one. My cousins an optometrist, so I know I fall within the acceptable range for prk; the question is whether I'm in the acceptable pre-op range for rated service. No reply is necessary. Thanks for your time. Your wisdom is not unheralded on these boards.

[ 19. September 2006, 08:54: Message edited by: Corwin ]

When you get your eyes dilated (cycloplegic exam), the optometrist does measurements for a refraction. Those measurements (numbers) will determine the answers to the questions you are asking:

Let's say the refraction is -3.25-2.25 x 180 (the axis , 180, does not play into waiverability, it's only needed for making the glasses).

The waiver criteria is based on the most myopic (near-sighted) portion of the prescription, which in this case is -5.50 (-3.25 combined with -2.25). This means you would be over any waiverable limits for current refractive status (-3.00 is the limit) and you would be at the maximum pre-operative limit to be eligible for UPT if you pursued PRK (any number higher than -5.50 or more would bust your consideration).

Bottom line...you won't get a waiver with your eyes as they are right now...if you decide to get PRK and there are no changes to your current cyclo refraction, you stand a chance for a waiver.
Now it is between you and your doc to decide if it's the right time (age) and if there are no other issues prohibiting you from getting PRK...if you go that route.

Good luck

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This, I do understand... It would make sense to me that I need to add the two together, since astigmatism does add to the final numbers of nearsighted refraction error. I wasn't trying to say "my cousin says I can get the surgery;" but I was saying "my cousin says I'm within the eligibile range for a CIVI to get the surgery." sorry for any misunderstanding. I realize uncle sam and his docs get final say. Afterall, even though I'm a tax_ it is their multimillion dollar aircraft I'd be flying.

What I was confused about was this:
USAF -5.50 -1.00

If -5.50 is the total refraction, what does the -1.00 stand for? Is their another index I am overlooking in my prescription that I need to know? Lastly, am I right in assuming that they are going to use the pre-op specs. of the Civi docter doing the surgery for what my pre-op prescription is? Otherwise, how on earth would they know?

I guess in the end, all I really want to do is to thank you all for your help. I just started learning about this 3 days ago after having made my own grandious plans w/o bothering to consult enough memmorandums. Despite my willingness to learn, I am certain that having to continually answer these questions on this board can be quite exasperating.

I did understand your question...and will try again to get the answer across.

-5.50 is the most you can be
-1.00 is the least you can be

in other words, you have to be between those numbers. Like I said, the -1.00 has nothing to do w/ astigmatism.

Now with that said, there has been a change in those numbers. The new numbers are -5.50 to +0.50 (that's right, a plus 0.50). Like I mentioned in another post...I'll get the new info up as soon as I can.

You are close...very close if the numbers you give are accurate. And...those numbers aren't the ones that count. Its the ones P27 talks about, the cycloplegic (dilated) exam. And they do know and can measure. Are there people who cheat? Yep. Sooner or later they get caught. I had an aircrew member about 2 years ago who had been flying with RK (radial keratotomy) for 8 years! He's not flying anymore...and the flight doc who helped hide it has a nasty letter addressing his lack of integrity. The letter is in his credentials file, which will follow him for 5 years as a civilian.

OK, so I guess I have a new series of questions. One that I am certain have been answered, but as I continue to go through this complicated process I continue to find myself confused. Rage, I'm hoping you can answer some of these. I'm also pursuing answers through the civilian doc performing my prk, through the Col. of a local ROTC Det., and to my OTS recruiter. Unfortunately, I have to play the waiting game, which is quickly running out, as my surgery is scheduled for Nov. 3.

Here's my situation:
My most recent prescrition is:
Right Eye: (exactly as written) -3.25-2.25x180
Left Eye: exactly as written) -4.00-1.75x170

Now I should mention three things. 1) I know that last number (x???) means nothing for the waiver.
2) I don't need these numbers... What I need is the cycloplegic numbers... WAIT! I did that yesterday. Don't have them on me, but my doctor assured me they are toughly the same (he said the astigmatism was actually -1.91 in the left eye with the drops in).
3) Ok, so you've said that the only thing that matters is Brooks, but you don't get the Brooks numbers until post-op, so these numbers (the pre-op from my physician) DO seem to matter.

Now here's where I get lost. If I've understood everything correctly, I have to get my pre-op numbers by ADDING my astigmatism numbers to my myopia numbers. I'm lost on this, because all the forms I've read as follows:

Myopia: -1.00 to -5.50 diopters (FC1)
Astigmatism to 0.75 to 3.00 diopters (FC1 and 1A, FC2, and FC3)

Now it seems to me that I DO meet these requirements. My myopia is within the limits, and my astigmatism is within the limits. My doctor concurred. These numbers are directly off of a USAF MFR.

I'm specifically looking for some guidance from Rage, as he is the guru of gurus on this board, but I'll take anything from anyone knowledgable.

Before you start answering, though, read my next post too.

OK... part II:

Now mind you, this may be totally irrelavent. This was a message I got from one of my USAF buddies that did a similar song and dance 1 year ago. Unfortunately, he is next to impossible to reach in any timely fashion, I don't know what his numbers that prevented him from getting in were, and he is NOT a doctor. He's now a JS nav. Anyhow, here's what he sent me:

Pre-Prk (any meridan)
Pilot
Usaf -5.5 -1.00
Usn -8.0 +6.00
USMC -8 +6.00
USA -6.00 + 4.00

THese are the base waviors, but thse are not the waviorable limits. YOu shoud be fine inside of those limits. The only person who can tell you for real is an opthamologist from Brooks, and those guys are damn near impossible to get ahold of. If you know anyone at Brooks or if you know anyone at a large base they can get you a number. I am at a Navy base and our ophamologist left, so I can't really get you hard numbers, and unfortuately they aren't allowed to reveal those they are only allowed to evaluate your numbers and give you a yes or no. I still recommend the surgery because I love it, and if you want you could always go nav and then transfer once on active duty. If you go on Baseops.net and look on avaiation medicine and this guy named rage is a flight doc. Let me know how everything goes. Sorry I have been pretty busy
_________________________________________

What lost me here was that he said those numbers were the "base waivers" and not the "waiverable limits." Now like I said, this guy is really smart, but he's only using his own research and experience. I'm just wondering if there is anything to what he is saying here. If not, well, not, but that's not going to stop me from looking for more loopholes if I'm DQ'd

Corwin,
If this is your cycloplegic refraction (eyes dilated):

"Here's my situation:
My most recent prescrition is:
Right Eye: (exactly as written) -3.25-2.25x180
Left Eye: exactly as written) -4.00-1.75x170"

Your right eye is at the MAX for IFC 1 pre-op cycloplegic refractive error PRK waiver...your left is over the MAX by .25...you won't get a waiver recommendation from Brooks...you won't even be cleared to proceed to Brooks for your IFC 1/MFS. You are within the standards for Nav.
Now if this is your eye glass (manifest) Rx, you need to get a cyclo...you could be within the standards.