67 replies to this topic

[Flare]

I think, if memory serves me correctly, the washout rate is around 69%? Or was it 6.9?


Either way, don't worry about it and do your best. Unless you're really not meant to be there, you'll make it. I'm not saying you'll get your 1st choice, but you will graduate.

[Sneedro]

Want a mindset?? Go in there with an open mind. Help out your classmates and have a good attitude towards everything you are doing. If you are willing to put in the effort and learn, the IP's will help you. Dont go in there saying I am going to fly the KC-10 (because EVERYONE wants to fly that sexy b!tch :D ) of maybe the F-22 I guess :rolleyes: . That wont go over well and life could suck for you.

I wouldnt worry about the washout rate. 1 guy washed out of our class. 1 guy washed back to the next class, and another guy almost made it back to the flight we started in he washed back so many times. So whats that tell you?? Well besically that if you want to be there, put in the effort, and give it your all you will make it through.

Good Luck to you

[ 27. February 2006, 21:59: Message edited by: Sneedro ]

[Hacker]

Quote

Originally posted by Trip:
but would like to know what the average washout rate is. I've yet to get a good answer.

This is a repost of a bunch of quotes from numerous sources about the UPT washout rate. As was said previously, the overall SUPT washout rate is something in the 10-20% region and I remember reading in an article that the actual historical UPT washout rate was 14%.

Quote

- A 1996 paper by Thomas R. Carretta which considers the validity of the AFOQT, shows that of 14,403 officers who attended UPT between 1981 and 1995, "88.3% of the pilot trainees successfully completed UPT." (meaning an 11.7% washout rate)

- "Over the last several years, UPT attrition rates have been steady at about 22%." (Source: "Group Differences on US Air Force Pilot Selection Tests", Thomas R. Carretta, 1997)

- A report which was looking at the impact of T-3/IFT showed that initial classes going though UPT after the cancallation of the T-3 program (1998 time frame) saw an increase in attrition from 6% to 19%. (Source: "The pre-Pilots Fly Again", Air Force Magazine, June 1999 Vol. 82, No. 6)

- The "US Air Force Pilot Selection and Training Methods" study by Coretta in 1999 said that the washout rate from T-37s alone during the two data periods they used was between 7.8% and 8.8%.

- "Approximately 15-20% of Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT) students are eliminated each year." (Source: United States Air Force School of Aerospace Medicine (USAFSAM) website)

- FY 88 UPT attrition was 37% (Source: "Air Force Pilot Selection Assessments", Tina Strickland, Air Force Personnel Operations Agency, 2 Nov 04)

- "The academy has a 50-percent lower attrition rate for pilot training than Reserve Officer Training Corps or Officer Training School. During the moratorium, attrition rates at UPT jumped to more than 20 percent at some bases." (Source: 'The Officer' Magazine Sept, 2001 by Jennifer Brugman)

- "Without the benefit of T-3 flight screening, attrition rates for SUPT climbed above 15 percent. The Air Force considers an 8 to 10 percent attrition rate acceptable." (Source: "AF replaces T-3 flying program", Air Force News Service, 13 Oct 1999)

- "General Welser said the Air Force's goal with the expanded IFT was to maintain an acceptable attrition rate. "Over the period of time we've been doing IFT vs. the T-3, we're finding the attrition rates within 1 percent of each other," he said. "7.8 percent for the T-3 and 8.8 percent for IFT." (Source: "AF replaces T-3 flying program", Air Force News Service, 13 Oct 1999)

[Skitzo]

The historic washout rate for columbus is 13%

[ClearedHot]

The washout rates varries for multiple reasons. When I went through UPT they were well over 30%, most of them in the T-37 phase. That being said, my class did not lose ANYONE.

Don't go to UPT with a percentage in your melon. You will have other things to worry about. Go there with a good work/study ethic, a great attitude, and use the desire that go you in the program, to get you to your wings.

[HerkDerka]

CH hit it on the head.

Quote

Originally posted by mustfly:
we have made sacrifices to get here. A lot is riding on my earning those wings.

Speaking of midsets, this is not the way to be. It is a universal truth that every day in UPT, no matter how well you are doing, you (and everyone else for that matter) are always three rides away from a progress/elimination check. That's just because of the way the syllabus is built. If you start getting up in arms about how hard you worked to get there and how much is riding on getting your wings you're going to stress yourself out.

Just go in ready to learn. Help your classmates. Ask questions. Soak it up like a sponge. That's all you can do. Everything else will fall into place. Don't stress yourself out, that's the IP's job. Thousands have come before you and thousands will come after you.

About 90% of the people who wash out are either self-eliminated or medical.

HD

[B-O-double-Z]

Quote

- FY 88 UPT attrition was 37% (Source: "Air Force Pilot Selection Assessments", Tina Strickland, Air Force Personnel Operations Agency, 2 Nov 04)

1988 equals 37% washout rate. That's the year I graduated from UPT. So...all the rest of you bee-otches need to quit your snivelling and crying.

Hell, my kindergarten class had a higher wash-out rate then what we're seeing today. Maybe we need to go back to some tough love.

Who's with me...

[Bergman]

My class of 28 people had 2 washout in T-37s, one pre-solo the other pre-midphase (the checkride that determines if you can go solo to the MOA).

Both of them washed out due to "basic aircraft control" - they couldn't maintain the proper airspeed in the final turn, would overshoot the runway every approach, and couldn't maintain airspeed or alitutde while enroute to/from the MOA. It was very frustrating to me personally because I spent quite a bit of time chair flying with both of these guys...but it comes to the point where they have to fly the jet alone, and if your brain just doesn't process information fast enough (cross checking a/s, alt, VVI, etc) no amount of preparation will help. With enough time, I believe both of those guys could have flown fine, but UPT isn't very forgiving to slow learners.

[ 16 February 2004, 21:12: Message edited by: Bergman ]

[Toro]

My class of about 40 had three wash out - one in tweets, one in T-1s, and one in T-38s. The T-37 and T-1 washouts were airmanship and aircraft control. The T-38 was inability to fly formation. In three years at Columbus I saw one guy wash out - he had big problems with basic aircraft control and airmanship, but it was formation that finally got him in the end.

If you wash out of pilot training, you can do just about anything else in the Air Force, but if you go kicking and screaming to your commanders review board, you're more apt to got something crappy like sitting at the bottom of a missile tube.

[HerkDerka]

Sounds familiar,

My class at Vance started with 26 and 21 winged. We had one Marine wash out for hooking his 89 ride. We also had one Navy guy fail three exams and another one who wasn't safe to solo. On the Air Force side, we had two med DQ and one wash. I was pretty depressed about the Navy guy who couldn't solo because I worked my ass off trying to keep him up to speed. I don't remember how many hours I spent in the links with him. Just be a team player in your class and help ANYONE who is floundering.

PD