297 replies to this topic

[Whitty]

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Probably the fact that, up until a year ago, they were heavily discriminated against by the military as a specific group of people.

And therein lies the irony. We're told not to regard gays differently than anyone else while the Pentagon holds an event specifically "celebrating" and directly highlighting how they are different.

[Boxhead]

Whitty, on 23 June 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

And therein lies the irony. We're told not to regard gays differently than anyone else while the Pentagon holds an event specifically "celebrating" and directly highlighting how they are different.

That's gay.

[joe1234]

Whitty, on 23 June 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

And therein lies the irony. We're told not to regard gays differently than anyone else while the Pentagon holds an event specifically "celebrating" and directly highlighting how they are different.

So what if it's ironic or logically inconsistent? It's politically expedient, and serves to mend a wound and build support for a voting bloc that the the President is trying to court in his attempt to build a coalition during an election year. The military is, and always has been nothing more than a tool for politicians -- anyone who believes otherwise is either too naive (and bit a little bit too hard on the recruiting jingoism), or simply not intelligent enough to comprehend it.

That's why we have gay servicemember celebrations. That's also why we have an AFSOC base in Clovis, NM.

[FlyingBull]

Rainman A-10, on 23 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

So what makes a gay and straight people different if it isn't sexual behavior? That answer would clear up a lot of confusion.

Behavior doesn't make anyone gay or straight. Orientation does. That seems like nit picking but it really is important. Two striaght guys can have sex, but it doesn't make either of them gay anymore than a gay guy having sex with a woman makes him straight. Additionally you can be gay your entire life and not once have sex with someone of the same gender. And sex is not really the focus of the orientation per say, but (and I know how this sounds, but seriously hear me out) who you fall in love with. Maybe I'm naive but I don't equate love with sexual attraction, though they do tend to happen at the same time.

Rainman A-10, on 23 June 2012 - 06:33 AM, said:

Some would argue that, in fact, there isn't a "community as a whole" that can be completely defined by sexuality alone.

This is true to an extent. There is no one big monolithic gay community any more than there is a Black one. But people who are gay, like people who are Black/Latino/whatever, do have shared interests on many important issues. Banding together to represent those common interests is important to getting them addressed. Without the gay 'community' acting more or less together to lobby the public and Congress, DADT would still be in effect. Without the gay community constantly working to inform the public about gay Americans the polls wouldn't be trending more and more in favor of equality as they have been over the last couple decades.

Quote

That's why people have issues with the celebration of a certain type of specific sexual behavior. The argument is, if you are not supposed to care about anyone's sexual behavior why are you then supposed to celebrate certain specific sexual behavior?

Can be kind of confusing for many, including those clumped into a "community" of diverse people.

Again it isn't about a behavior, but a group of people who share the same sexual orientation. They aren't celebrating anal sex pride, because you don't have to have anal sex to be gay. They are celebrating gay people. Considering the hardships gays in the military have endured due to official policy, and still do thanks to DOMA, I don't see harm in recognizing them.

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Probably the fact that, up until a year ago, they were heavily discriminated against by the military as a specific group of people. A small, relatively un-newsworthy event seems like a rather benign mea culpa, especially considering the fucked up paranoid suppression of their personal lives that they've had to deal with over the years.

This.

bfargin, on 22 June 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

But, do 100s of turd burglars dancing around like Kansas City faggots at parades around the country several times a year represent your "community"?

Wow. Posting from TN. Fucking shocked.

First, seriously whats with the bigoted language? Second I doubt gay pride parades are anything like what you have in your mind. Most of them are freaking family events. Don't believe the bullshit assholes like Pat Robertson or some homophobic GOP Congressman (who is probably a closet case anyway) say.

What really stuns me about homophobic rants, is that those people never think about the fact that someone in their family is probably gay. Maybe one of their own kids, how fanfuckingtastic do you think it is for a gay child to hear that shit from their parents?

[Boxhead]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Behavior doesn't make anyone gay or straight. Orientation does. That seems like nit picking but it really is important. Two striaght guys can have sex, but it doesn't make either of them gay anymore than a gay guy having sex with a woman makes him straight.

Now I know why my friend who insists that she is a Vegetarian even though she eats fish and chicken can still think she is a Vegetarian...it's not a persons actions, it's simply how they feel about themselves. Totally clear now.


I think you forgot "sh1t" on the end of FlyingBull.

[FlyingBull]

Boxhead, on 23 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Now I know why my friend who insists that she is a Vegetarian even though she eats fish and chicken can still think she is a Vegetarian...it's not a persons actions, it's simply how they feel about themselves. Totally clear now.


I think you forgot "sh1t" on the end of FlyingBull.

Apples and Oranges dude.

Being a vegetarian is a choice and is defined by an action. Sexual orientation is not. Who you are attracted to physically and who you fall in love with are not choices. Who you have sex with is a choice, but not who you want to have sex with.

[LockheedFix]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Wow. Posting from TN. Fucking shocked.

First, seriously whats with the bigoted language? Second I doubt gay pride parades are anything like what you have in your mind. Most of them are freaking family events. Don't believe the bullshit assholes like Pat Robertson or some homophobic GOP Congressman (who is probably a closet case anyway) say.

I find it interesting that in a post where you are ostensibly preaching tolerance, you go on to denigrate an entire state and cast all it's citizens as homophobic bigots.

Second, go Google "gay pride parade" and tell me what page you get to before you find one picture that looks like a family event. It wasn't a bunch of homophobes that posted all those pictures of parades on the Internet as some sort of vast right wing conspiracy to paint all gays as hedonistic voyeurs.

[Boxhead]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Apples and Oranges dude.

Being a vegetarian is a choice and is defined by an action. Sexual orientation is not. Who you are attracted to physically and who you fall in love with are not choices. Who you have sex with is a choice, but not who you want to have sex with.

So our wants have now officially trumped our actual actions in both acceptability and policy. Awesome.
Anyway, I got it, you dig that some dudes dig dudes, and that is OK as the dudes digging dudes. That is all wonderful. I am happy we live in a place where we can all love what we "want".
The point of the thread was these cats got singled out for their "orientation"(let's use your term), and in all the training, that undeniable, helpless to change their hearts feelings about who they fall in love with is the ONE thing that is not supposed to matter. But yet, by making it a huge public event, it apperently does matter.

Then,(a separate, yet applicable event) some of those nice people that want to love people of their same gender were invited to the highest publicly elected official's house, and their behavior was horrible. But that's all OK, cause they feel like they were slighted in the past, and God knows, your feelings matter.

They were given a stage, and they fvcked it up. Then again, even though they can't help who they love, they also can't figure out as a group where or how or why the plug fits in the socket, and since that is just about the most basic "action" that you can choose or not choose to do, I would not expect that their deeper, more thought through actions would be any better. (or not better, since actions no longer matter, theyfelt good, and man, feeling good trumps all)

Edited by Boxhead, 23 June 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Boxhead]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Apples and Oranges dude.

Being a vegetarian is a choice and is defined by an action. Sexual orientation is not. Who you are attracted to physically and who you fall in love with are not choices. Who you have sex with is a choice, but not who you want to have sex with.

Make sure you start a charitable fund for Jerry Sandusky. I mean, sure, he may have chose to do those things, but really, he had no choice, I mean, he had no option, no hope of ever being able to settle the cognitive dissonance that must have tore at his heart strings every time he had to make love to that "thing" he was married to, when really, in his deepest and most special of places, he needed to be with young men. Man, my heart goes out to him. Not cause of his actions, but because he has stifled by laws and an uncaring society that just could not accept him for what he was. It's a shame.

Edited by Boxhead, 23 June 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[joe1234]

Boxhead, on 23 June 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Make sure you start a charitable fund for Jerry Sandusky. I mean, sure, he may have chose to do those things, but really, he had no choice, I mean, he had no option, no hope of ever being able to settle the cognitive dissonance that must have tore at his heart strings every time he had to make love to that "thing" he was married to, when really, in his deepest and most special of places, he needed to be with young men. Man, my heart goes out to him. Not cause of his actions, but because he has stifled by laws and an uncaring society that just could not accept him for what he was. It's a shame.

Yes, because molesting kids against their will thereby giving them such emotional trauma that they carry it with them their entire lives, and two adults consensually having sex are literally the same thing.

I want to save this thread on my computer, so that someday I could show my grandkids how ridiculous people were back in the day. It's like reading one of those books that talk about international jew conspiracies and the rise of colored empires.

[Rainman A-10]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Behavior doesn't make anyone gay or straight....

Two striaght guys can have sex, but it doesn't make either of them gay...

And sex is not really the focus of the orientation per say...

Maybe I'm naive but I don't equate love with sexual attraction...

Ok.

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

There is no one big monolithic gay community

But people who are gay, like people who are Black/Latino/whatever, do have shared interests on many important issues. Banding together to represent those common interests is important to getting them addressed.

Wait, what? Yes or no?

Some could be offended by your sweeping generalization about blacks and gays all having the same interests.

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Without the gay 'community' acting more or less together to lobby the public and Congress, DADT would still be in effect.

Constitutional republic. Driven by economics.

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Again it isn't about a behavior, but a group of people who share the same sexual orientation.

Sure.

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Second I doubt gay pride parades are anything like what you have in your mind. Most of them are freaking family events.

Uh, you might want to do a little more research on this one.

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Don't believe the bullshit assholes like Pat Robertson or some homophobic GOP Congressman (who is probably a closet case anyway) say.

Tolerance?

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

What really stuns me about homophobic rants, is that those people never think about the fact that someone in their family is probably gay. Maybe one of their own kids, how fanfuckingtastic do you think it is for a gay child to hear that shit from their parents?

Like when someone goes off about a religious belief.

[lloyd christmas]

Boxhead, on 23 June 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

So our wants have now officially trumped our actual actions in both acceptability and policy. Awesome.
Anyway, I got it, you dig that some dudes dig dudes, and that is OK as the dudes digging dudes. That is all wonderful. I am happy we live in a place where we can all love what we "want".
The point of the thread was these cats got singled out for their "orientation"(let's use your term), and in all the training, that undeniable, helpless to change their hearts feelings about who they fall in love with is the ONE thing that is not supposed to matter. But yet, by making it a huge public event, it apperently does matter.

Then,(a separate, yet applicable event) some of those nice people that want to love people of their same gender were invited to the highest publicly elected official's house, and their behavior was horrible. But that's all OK, cause they feel like they were slighted in the past, and God knows, your feelings matter.

They were given a stage, and they fvcked it up. Then again, even though they can't help who they love, they also can't figure out as a group where or how or why the plug fits in the socket, and since that is just about the most basic "action" that you can choose or not choose to do, I would not expect that their deeper, more thought through actions would be any better. (or not better, since actions no longer matter, theyfelt good, and man, feeling good trumps all)

Feelings man. Nothing else matters.

The pro gay people here love to paint the average homosexual as this clean and healthy victim of society's intolerance and ignorance. They fail to mention just how destructive the gay lifestyle is. It is a lifestyle that is plagued with much higher rates of AIDS/HIV/STDs, higher risks for cancer, substance abuse, suicide, mental health issues and a lifespan that is much shorter due to disease and substance abuse. Many homosexuals have hundreds of sexual partners in their lifetime and the length of committed relationships is a fraction of what it is for heterosexual couples especially heterosexual couples with children. They also have higher rates of domestic violence. These are all issues that effect society as a whole. This is what the Pentagon is choosing to "celebrate".

I guess you probably arent going to be too healthy when you are eating another man's shit.

"A study in the New England Journal of Medicine indicates that the average active homosexual male ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year (largely from rimming), and that the number of sexual partners averages nearly 100. Homosexual persons, per year, on average fellated 106 different men, swallowed 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and had 72 penile penetrations of the anus."

Edited by lloyd christmas, 23 June 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Rainman A-10]

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes, because molesting kids against their will thereby giving them such emotional trauma that they carry it with them their entire lives, and two adults consensually having sex are literally the same thing.

But who is to say Sandusky's orientation wasn't to have sex with kids? Clearly, it was. Unfortunately today that is illegal, even if the little boys consent.

Maybe your grandchildren will be just as shocked that there was once a time that people discriminated against men whose sexual orientation was little boys.

[Boxhead]

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes, because molesting kids against their will thereby giving them such emotional trauma that they carry it with them their entire lives, and two adults consensually having sex are literally the same thing.

I want to save this thread on my computer, so that someday I could show my grandkids how ridiculous people were back in the day. It's like reading one of those books that talk about international jew conspiracies and the rise of colored empires.

How do you know it was against their will? Do you know their hearts? Maybe society just painted their true love and feelings (and actions) in a negative way. You are so closed minded. I hope you do save this thread, so your grandkids can throw it in your face about how bigoted you are against their older lovers. You either move ahead as a society or you stagnate, and apparently, stagnation is bad.

[Rainman A-10]

lloyd christmas, on 23 June 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

"A study in the New England Journal of Medicine indicates that the average active homosexual male ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year (largely from rimming), and that the number of sexual partners averages nearly 100. Homosexual persons, per year, on average fellated 106 different men, swallowed 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and had 72 penile penetrations of the anus."

You don't have a hair on your ass if you don't make this your new signature line.

[Danger41]

lloyd christmas, on 23 June 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

"A study in the New England Journal of Medicine indicates that the average active homosexual male ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year (largely from rimming), and that the number of sexual partners averages nearly 100. Homosexual persons, per year, on average fellated 106 different men, swallowed 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and had 72 penile penetrations of the anus."

That seriously looks like something from The Onion.

[joe1234]

Rainman A-10, on 23 June 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

But who is to say Sandusky's orientation wasn't to have sex with kids? Clearly, it was. Unfortunately today that is illegal, even if the little boys consent.

Maybe your grandchildren will be just as shocked that there was once a time that people discriminated against men whose sexual orientation was little boys.

Maybe they will, but that's a pretty ambitious time frame for society to completely reject the concept of protecting from sexual abuse, and accept child molestation as normal.

Boxhead, on 23 June 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

How do you know it was against their will? Do you know their hearts? Maybe society just painted their true love and feelings (and actions) in a negative way. You are so closed minded. I hope you do save this thread, so your grandkids can throw it in your face about how bigoted you are against their older lovers. You either move ahead as a society or you stagnate, and apparently, stagnation is bad.

If you're going to troll, at least try to make it funny or clever. This is terrible.

[ThreeHoler]

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Maybe they will, but that's a pretty ambitious time frame for society to completely reject the concept of protecting from sexual abuse, and accept child molestation as normal.

Joe, meet the ancient Greeks.

[Boxhead]

ThreeHoler, on 23 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Joe, meet the ancient Greeks.

Or at least half dozen countries where is is no big deal.

joe1234, on 23 June 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

This is terrible.

On that, we agree.

[pcola]

FlyingBull, on 23 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Two striaght guys can have sex, but it doesn't make either of them gay anymore than a gay guy having sex with a woman makes him straight.

Of all the BS that you spewed, this is true. Just ask the Navy: "It ain't gay if you're underway."

Boxhead, on 23 June 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

Make sure you start a charitable fund for Jerry Sandusky. I mean, sure, he may have chose to do those things, but really, he had no choice, I mean, he had no option, no hope of ever being able to settle the cognitive dissonance that must have tore at his heart strings every time he had to make love to that "thing" he was married to, when really, in his deepest and most special of places, he needed to be with young men. Man, my heart goes out to him. Not cause of his actions, but because he has stifled by laws and an uncaring society that just could not accept him for what he was. It's a shame.

I was also going to bring up the Sandusky case. I guess the jury got it wrong. His actions weren't reprehensible because obviously it was merely his orientation that was to blame. Who was he to question how God made him? Now that I think of it, people that steal do so because they want to. People that are lazy are so because they can't imagine being any other way. Who are we to be so intolerant when it's clearly not their fault? They aren't accountable for their wants, and thus shouldn't judged by their actions which are merely a product of those wants.