63 replies to this topic

[asc]

jp84, on 31 January 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

wow, this sucks... just finished IFS for one of those a10 guard units :/ ...

I'm curious on what happens to these guys in process. What options are out there? .... Begin searching for other UPT boards?

[135ASelect]

Article out on Military.com, http://www.military....01075741&rank=2

[NEflyer]

asc, on 31 January 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

I'm curious on what happens to these guys in process. What options are out there? .... Begin searching for other UPT boards?

Hopefully someone who's had some firsthand experience will chime in, but from what I've heard, you're relatively safe if you're already in the pipeline. The money has already been allocated at that point. A few units that were BRAC'd in 2005 continued hiring guys for the next few years and sent them all the way through b-course. It just becomes an issue of finding another unit, which at that stage shouldn't be nearly as difficult. They've proven they can get through and are fully qual'd. As a result, any unit willing to hire is essentially getting that guy for "free" and it saves them all the troubles associated with hiring someone off the street.

Edited by NEflyer, 31 January 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Mad Dog]

NEflyer, on 31 January 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Hopefully someone who's had some firsthand experience will chime in, but from what I've heard, you're relatively safe if you're already in the pipeline. The money has already been allocated at that point. A few units that were BRAC'd in 2005 continued hiring guys for the next few years and sent them all the way through b-course. It just becomes an issue of finding another unit, which at that stage shouldn't be nearly as difficult. They've proven they can get through and are fully qual'd. As a result, any unit willing to hire is essentially getting that guy for "free" and it saves them all the troubles associated with hiring someone off the street.

Glad to hear that I'm not completely screwed. I'm in UPT right now, keeping my fingers crossed that my C-130 Guard unit still exists by the time I get outta here. I'm sure the dealings of this budget cut / BRAC crisis are hugely political, but it seems like the active duty is unzipping trou and dropping a big ole steamer on some Guard forehead. Granted I'm new to the game, but it seems to me that when shit needs to get done (correctly, quickly, and with an airplane that actually works) in a deployment setting, they call up the Guard. Now, when iron is on the line, the Guard gets served turd sandwiches 3 times a day. Don't we have some protection from our respective governors??

Check out this article: http://www.airforcet...ansion-010212w/

This quote in particular, from Major Douchecock, is worth noting: "Active-duty has seen the Guard as quitters, the guys who couldn’t hack it,” said an Air Force major who asked not to be named"

Yeah....I'll be sure to let all my bros working 24/7 ops in the sandbox know that they are a bunch of quitters. Obviously that guy couldn't hack it at any of the sevearl Guard units he most certainly applied to.

[brabus]

Quote

Granted I'm new to the game, but it seems to me that when shit needs to get done (correctly, quickly, and with an airplane that actually works) in a deployment setting, they call up the Guard. Now, when iron is on the line, the Guard gets served turd sandwiches 3 times a day. Don't we have some protection from our respective governors??

It's like Rainman said, this stuff totally sucks, but this has been a possibility since day one of the ARC. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I hope it works out for you and all the other dudes out there who are put in these situations, but this isn't AD shitting on the guard, if anything, be pissed at the assholes in Washington who keep raping the defense budget.

[gearpig]

Mad Dog, on 31 January 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Check out this article: http://www.airforcet...ansion-010212w/

This quote in particular, from Major Douchecock, is worth noting: "Active-duty has seen the Guard as quitters, the guys who couldn’t hack it,” said an Air Force major who asked not to be named"

Quitters? I suspect a few of those quitters had the presence of mind to know they were getting fucked by AD during the part of thier life where they would be best able to capitalize on bigger and better opportunities on the outside. Those quitters may have found that the Guard still provided them the opportunity to serve thier country out of desire, not necessity, earn pay by doing actual meaningful work (in most cases), have a stable family life, and also have the satisfaction of being allowed the freedom to also be successful in the "real world."

Just a suspicion, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're just lazy and hate the USA.

[herkbum]

Mad Dog, on 31 January 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Check out this article: http://www.airforcet...ansion-010212w/

This quote in particular, from Major Douchecock, is worth noting: "Active-duty has seen the Guard as quitters, the guys who couldn’t hack it,” said an Air Force major who asked not to be named"
.

The guy is an assclown. I don't see the Guard as quitters, I see it as getting the job done. The Guard ought to stop carrying cargo, passing gas, and sitting alert for a month; then we'll see how much of the mission is hacked by the "quitters".

[Danny Noonin]

Mad Dog, on 31 January 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

This quote in particular, from Major Douchecock, is worth noting: "Active-duty has seen the Guard as quitters, the guys who couldn’t hack it,” said an Air Force major who asked not to be named"

You took that quote out of context. The major didn't say that HE thought the guard dudes were quitters who couldn't hack it. He was talking about the old blue kool aid drinking generals in the budget talks. You know, the same guys that think if you don't have your PME done 2 months after being selected for promotion that you're not dedicated enough to the AF. The rest of the quote is:

"That started to go away recently, but you can see how it's starting to creep back now with these budget talks."

[Rainman A-10]

Some of you guys need to get real and slow your fucking roll.

I have some really good friends who are going to be effected by these closures. This isn't the first time for many of them. The truth is, they all know and acknowledge the risk of flying borrowed AD iron...

Every time someone says something less than flattering the Guard guys well up and bow up about it. Of course no one expects any active duty guys to ever be offended when the Guard guys shit all over the AD, including many of whom who served on AD.

There are issues. Real issues.

It shouldn't be a surprise that some among the AD officers see guys who go to the Guard as quitters. It is no small wonder some AD guys think that way when many pilots who separated from AD made a big deal about how they were getting away from all the fucked up AD people and rules. There are many on this board who do that very thing. How do you expect people to react to that?

The thing that always gets tossed into the ring is the "All the capability for half the cost" argument. That doesn't always float.

You all need to know that the AD isn't impressed when it takes three ANG squadrons to do a single AEF tasking. That means to them "three times the iron for the same combat capability."

Now, before anyone gets all cranked up with the "activation" argument be advised I know that tune and I'm not saying it is all wrong. The truth is, it is a very political issue and the AD guys are still going to see in the same way Gen Dempsey described it...

Quote

Dempsey said accessibility to Guard units and the speed in which they can mobilize must also be considered. “We’ve got to be really, really honest with each other about what we can generate over those discrete periods of time because there have been times when, frankly, in my view, we’ve kind of overpromised and underdelivered,” Dempsey said in November.

The Guard consistently pushes back with "we can deploy more/faster if you give us the resources" which, obviously, nullifies the all the capability for half the cost argument.

No one is calling Guardsmen traitors, cowards or unpatriotic. You just need to know not everyone sees the ANG as some sort of great answer and you need to be open to the fact that they have valid points, even if you don't agree.

Just sayin'...

[herkbum]

I hear you Rainman. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so this AD Major may or may not be talking out of turn since I do not know his background. I am not anti-AD, I just want them to realize they cannot do what they are doing now without the Guard, especially in MAF assets. I have no knowledge on the CAF, so I will not speak to it.

Now the Guard is becoming more and more AD like. At least in my squadron, it is not the same Guard as it was 20 years ago when I got in. We are flying less due to maintenance isssues (the BRAC took our 89 models and we now have 65 models, which are also going away) and have the same amount of requirements (impossible to get all due to maintenance and non-compatible airframes). It just is not as fun anymore. I guess that is the environment now. We will see once we officially get our new mission announcement, whenever that is going to be. I believe we will be even more AD like then.

[Rainman A-10]

Ten years of combat is hard on the force. And by that I mean the Total Force...no one will escape the pain locker. We're meeting that brutal reality with budget/force cuts.

This is going to be an awkward dismount.

[Termy]

I am curious how the B-1 is surviving this. I am not "anti-B-1" at all-it is a freaking cool jet-but it just seems the low density, high cost, and non-unique mission set would make it an easy target. Can anyone shed some unclass/big picture thoughts on this?

[Rainman A-10]

The B-1 is non-unique? Did we buy a supersonic nuke bomber when I was taking my nap?

[Termy]

I'll rephrase: "Is the unique mission of a supersonic nuke bomber why the B-1 still around?"

[Fast_N_Low135]

Rainman A-10, on 01 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

The B-1 is non-unique? Did we buy a supersonic nuke bomber when I was taking my nap?

I was under the impression that the B-1 no longer carries nukes, so...unique?

[Moody]

I believe they don't, but could potentially be refitted, which is why they basically got a carve out in START II. Sure someone knows more than I on this though.

[Loach]

Is Big Blue going to cut the RC-26's from the Guard also? That's what I heard -- hope that's not true. If so, that means cancelling the Guards C-27J and RC-26B missions altogether. That is a pretty big hit already, not counting the 130's, A-10's etc that they're going to get rid of.

[Marco]

Where did you hear about RC-26's being removed?

[Loach]

Where did you hear about RC-26's being removed?
I actually heard it from a friend in the guard about 2 weeks ago. I kind of blew it off, and thought maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. Today, I saw it on Airline Pilots forum.com, so now I'm a little concerned, and it does make sense (well, really it doesn't make sense, but when you throw that out the window and think Big Air Force way, it does). Anyway, here's what I saw:

More than 280 aircraft have been identified in the current budget submission for
elimination across all Air Force components over the next five years. This includes 123 fighters (102 A‐10s and 21 older F‐16s), 133 mobility aircraft (27 C‐5As, 65 C‐130s, 20 KC‐135s, and 21 C‐27s), and 30 select ISR systems (18 RQ‐4 Block 30s, 11 RC‐26s, and one E‐8 damaged beyond repair).

I know it's just another posting on another forum, but after hearing it from my friend about 2 weeks ago and then seeing it today, I am a little concerned. I was hoping to go that route in a year or two (as an MSO). I guess we'll know more on 2/13.

Here's the actual link to the CSAF's news release today. It does say he wants to get rid of the 11 RC-26's, amongst all the others...

http://www.af.mil/sh...-120201-027.pdf

Edited by Loach, 01 February 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[Marco]

Damn. What a shit sandwich. Thanks for the link.