24 replies to this topic

[matmacwc]

Go guard

[Learjetter]

kai_strife, on 24 May 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

I'm just looking for a starting point. Besides things like my Form 48 (signed every year), and a letter from my advisor confirming that I will be graduating Spring 2012, what else should I include? Thanks for any help in advance!

If your cadre "knows they messed up" and will do everything to help, I would think the CoC and the PAS should write letters for you, describing their actions and how their actions contributed mightily to the disenrollement. Without those letters, you likely haven't a chance.

[M2]

Quote

"Fast forward to last semester. Fall 2010, I unfortunately received my third conditional due to grades"

Ummmm....I understand your Det may have dorked the 22 package; but WTF is this all about? This was your third conditional due to grades? It's been a long time since I was in AFROTC, but even back in the old days this would have put you on very thin ice.

If I'm not mistaken, conditionals are still given when your GPS drops below 2.5, right? One would be somewhat understandable, two a little tougher to explain, but three?

Good luck with your effort to get reinstated, but don't go telling one that your cadre made all the mistakes when you've got three conditionals!

[CIVE]

Quote

Good luck with your effort to get reinstated, but don't go telling one that your cadre made all the mistakes when you've got three conditionals!

Agreed. Air Force numbers are cutting down and you only gave them fresh meat by getting 3 conditionals.

[thoma015]

conditionals are given out for a number of reasons. One being if you fail, another if you have to repeat a class. If you pass the class with a D but have to take it again because it is a pre req, then you get a conditional.

Edited by thoma015, 26 May 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[M2]

I agree your Det dropped the ball by not informing HQ AFROTC of your extra year, but don'tcha think that given the fact that you've failed to pass three classes might be a contributing factor in your needing the extra time to graduate?

And don't get too comfortable with these Mulligans once you get on active duty. Hell, in today's world I am surprised you've been able to stay in the program with those strikes. The USAF is looking for ways to cut numbers across the board, and you're just giving them reasons to target you when you get a conditional.

I wish you all the luck, but you are somewhat responsible for your situation and it doesn't take too much these days to find yourself out on the street.

[spudsmac]

A little of topic, but has anyone heard of an appeal actually making a difference? I was disenrolled nearly a year ago and plan on submiting my appeal at the end of this month. Cadre threw me under the bus and lied to me numerous times durign the process and after and I want to get the recommendation (got a friggin 5) changed so I can try Navy. I don't think they're going to let me back in even though I finished ROTC and graduated.

[Fuzz]

The only guy I know to submit an appeal had his rejected, but then again he was kicked for failing classes and not graduating on time. More details might help.

[Rainman A-10]

spudsmac, on 12 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Cadre threw me under the bus and lied to me numerous times durign the process and after

Really? If true you definitely have something to move forward with.

I'll be honest, I'm skeptical whenever I see a comment like this, especially since there is normally no incentive for them to do such a thing.

Amplifying remarks please.

[spudsmac]

Rainman A-10, on 13 April 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Really? If true you definitely have something to move forward with.

I'll be honest, I'm skeptical whenever I see a comment like this, especially since there is normally no incentive for them to do such a thing.

Amplifying remarks please.

You have good reason to be skeptical.

When I joined, I was filling out the paperwork with one of the NCOs and it asked about drugs taken. I had previously had a prescription for a drug and took it a couple years later without a prescription. I asked if I needed to put it on there since I had a script at one point and she said "No, it's a prescription drug, so you should not list it". After Field Training, I put it on my SF-86 and nothing was ever said about it from ROTC. I even had an interview with someone from OPM and there was no problem there. My last semester before graduating, I did another SF-86 for TS and they went crazy over it and asked me why I didn't tell anyone before, yada yada. I explained it to them and they realized that I did list it and it just never came up.

They started doing the investigative process and the NCO who told me not to put it down stated in a memorandum that she matter of fact never told me that and that she would have told me to list it. Keep in mind that she had inprocessed a couple hundred cadets in the meantime (lie #1). I ended up getting all kinds of letters of recs from cadre, a Marine col I was working for for a volunteer organization, and even the former det CC. I was told by the IO (investigative officer) to have my rebuttal in by Friday. I was still waiting on one letter from someone and he told me I could turn the packet in on Monday. I turned it in Friday anyways just to be safe and on Monday I gave him the last letter. Fast forward to commissioning paperwork and they left the copy of my packet in the personal folder. I noticed the letter was not in there. Asked the IO about it and he said he remembered seeing it and that it must have just been missed when being copied. Next day sends me an email saying that I never turned it in and he remembers me asking about turning it in late. When I asked him in email about out conversation when he said he remembered the letter, he replied saying that if I had turned it in, there would have been a copy (lie #2). The packet I received from the FOIA request did not have the letter in it either.

Lie 3 is done by the CC himself. He told me he would waive it at his level if he could and that I'm a good cadet, should commission, and that he was going to give a favorable input on the packet. When doing commissioning paperwork, I saw his recommendation and it said, "Although I was unable to determine if he was told to not report this use during in-processing or not, he did not disclose his use on initial entry into the program", which is a contradiction in itself. He also recommended disenrolment because he did not expect that kind of behavior from a future officer. Fair enough, he can put down whatever opinion he wants, but when I went back to see him a month or so after I got kicked out, he told me he did everything he could to keep me in. I politely told him that I saw his recommendation and told him that I didn't think it was very supportive. He really didn't have much to say after that. That page of the packet is the only page that the cadet never gets to see. I wasn't supposed to see it unless I submit a FOIA request after.

They did lie, but the only one that I have a leg to stand on with is the missing letter from my rebuttal. I'm going to use that in order to present new evidence. I've saved all correspondence and scanned all letters with time-stamps, so I will include that.

Edited by spudsmac, 15 April 2012 - 12:50 AM.

[Fuzz]

Rainman A-10, on 13 April 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

Really? If true you definitely have something to move forward with.

I'll be honest, I'm skeptical whenever I see a comment like this, especially since there is normally no incentive for them to do such a thing.

Amplifying remarks please.

I can see the CYA factor for the cadre involved, especially if there is no corroborating evidence they told him not to list it besides his word.

spudsmac, on 15 April 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

They did lie, but the only one that I have a leg to stand on with is the missing letter from my rebuttal. I'm going to use that in order to present new evidence. I've saved all correspondence and scanned all letters with time-stamps, so I will include that.

I fail to see how one letter missing is significant, the only thing I can see that you could have a leg would be the fact that you did previously list the medication on the initial SF-86 and they did nothing about it and then claimed you failed to reveal it.

[spudsmac]

Scaredfuzz21, on 15 April 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I fail to see how one letter missing is significant, the only thing I can see that you could have a leg would be the fact that you did previously list the medication on the initial SF-86 and they did nothing about it and then claimed you failed to reveal it.

I agree, but I have to present new evidence in order to have my appeal considered.

The angle I worked for my rebuttal was that I did in fact have a waiver in place since I revealed it and they let me continue ROTC. I stated that the proper paperwork for the waiver was not processed.

The AF's position is that according to the rules, I should have never been in ROTC in the first place....fair enough, but I want a shot at another branch and I have been effectively blackballed from any officer program due to the "Definitely not recommended" box that was checked on the separation paperwork. Funny thing though, they didn't make me pay anything back and sent me an Honorable Discharge certificate after kicking me out for "fraudulently enlistment" because I "failed to maintain ROTC standards". I am only asking them to change the box to something that would allow me to seek a commission in another branch.

[Rainman A-10]

Was this LSD or something?

It looks like you really do want to serve your country. Keep swinging. Eventually someone will give a shit and cut you a break. Be ready.

[Fuzz]

Rainman A-10, on 15 April 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Was this LSD or something?

spudsmac, on 15 April 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

I had previously had a prescription for a drug and took it a couple years later without a prescription.

Last time I checked LSD wasn't being prescribed.



@ Spusmac: If you are trying to get the recommendation changed, I would say you have a better shot at that, than trying to get the AF to let you back in. Although I'm curious how you took a drug later without a prescription?

[Rainman A-10]

Scaredfuzz21, on 15 April 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Last time I checked LSD wasn't being prescribed.

When was the last time you checked to see if you could get a prescription for LSD?

Last time I checked your sarcasm detector was inop.

[Beaver]

Scaredfuzz21, on 15 April 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Although I'm curious how you took a drug later without a prescription?

Hey man, I have a couple hydrocodone leftover from my knee surgery. Want one?

Yes, please.

[spudsmac]

Beaver, on 16 April 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Hey man, I have a couple hydrocodone leftover from my knee surgery. Want one?

Yes, please.

Bingo. I was a dumb ass about it though and took more than I was supposed to take. Didn't even feel anything though. Worst decision of my life.

I probably should have never even brought it up with ROTC. They told me Integrity meant something, at least till it comes time to CYA.