32 replies to this topic

[discus]

Quote

UAV pilots to get flight pay

By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer
Posted : Saturday Oct 10, 2009 9:13:12 EDT

Airmen will receive flight pay for the first time without ever leaving the ground.

The extra cash will go with the new unmanned aerial vehicle pilot career field approved Sept 29 by Air Force leaders at an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance summit in Washington.

Leaders also approved a career field for sensor operators, though officials are still working out the details to allow these airmen to receive flight pay.

Both UAV pilots and sensor operators, though, will receive wings for their uniforms similar to those worn by manned pilots and aircrew members.

The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047.

UAV pilots will receive the “18X” Air Force Specialty Code. It will be a “rated” career field and require airmen to serve a six-year active-duty service commitment.

Air Force officials have not settled on a name for the career field. Officials do not want “unmanned” in the name because Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said the career field is anything but unmanned.

Sensor operators, enlisted airmen who sit next to the pilots and direct the sensors, will receive the “1U” AFSC, which will be a subcategory of Career Enlisted Aviators. It will require a three-year active-duty service commitment.

The whole story

I am so glad I receive flight pay to deal with a 40+ year old airplane, preform emergency ground egresses on a regular basis, have a high potential to get shot at, spend months away from home, etc. That flight pay is nice, and makes it all worth it. Wait... You're going to give NON-RATED Pred drivers WHAT?!?!?!?!?

[Herkbier]

Think of it as "retention pay" in a career field that few want to be in..

[nunya]

Sounds like you need to volunteer for the UAVs, then. You could fly a brand new airplane, never emergency ground egress, never get shot at, never leave home, and STILL get flight pay. It'd be perfect, right?

[TacAirCoug]

Flight pay is INCENTIVE pay...to keep you in the cockpit (or in this case, the shipping container). It has nothing to do with how dangerous your job is. The title is your clue: Aviation Career Incentive Pay. Not "Oh My God I Just Shit My Drawers Because I Thought I Saw A SAM" pay.

[discus]

TacAirCoug, on 10 March 2010 - 09:44 AM, said:

Flight pay is INCENTIVE pay...to keep you in the cockpit (or in this case, the shipping container). It has nothing to do with how dangerous your job is. The title is your clue: Aviation Career Incentive Pay. Not "Oh My God I Just Shit My Drawers Because I Thought I Saw A SAM" pay.

Fair Enough.

Maybe I'll just STFU and color. I was all for the non-rated UAV drivers getting their own wings, etc, etc. because they were filling up a slot not many people wanted on the rated side, and it is a good thing to motivate them to volunteer. It just chafed me, as I always thought of the FLY PAY (As seen on the LES) as my little extra kick for doing a fairly dangerous job. I guess not.

Edited by discus, 10 March 2010 - 09:50 AM.

[Vice]

Don't flight doctors and such need to have a minimum amount of hours per month to qualify for their flight pay?

[dream big]

"The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047."

Are they really trying to achieve a complete shift to unmanned Air Force aviation by 2047? Damn..

[gearpig]

Next thing you know they'll be wearing wings and leather jackets.

[SuperWSO]

dream big, on 10 March 2010 - 10:44 AM, said:

"The career fields, the incentive packages, the wings are all part of the Air Force’s ongoing shift to an unmanned fleet by 2047."

Are they really trying to achieve a complete shift to unmanned Air Force aviation by 2047? Damn..

In the fiftys, the big talking point was when we would become an "all jet" Air Force. Nice goal at the time, but we still aren't there and since our most recent acquisitions (MC-12, U-28, MQ-1,9, AT-6) are all prop driven, I don't think we are going to get there.

Somebody probably put together a white paper about an all UAV/UAS fleet by 2047, but it will be a cold day in hell before I get on a C/KC anything without a pilot. I know this has been discussed under other threads previously, but there is no benefit to removing the aviator from an aircraft loaded with people.

[ClearedHot]

SuperWSO, on 10 March 2010 - 11:08 AM, said:

...but there is no benefit to removing the aviator from an aircraft loaded with people.

Sure there is, it keeps the pilot safe when the airplane crashes.

[Riebs]

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

gearpig, on 10 March 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

Next thing you know they'll be wearing wings and leather jackets.

you mean like ABMs?

As for UAV guys getting "Flight Pay", also (correctly) known as Aviation Career Incentive Pay, I've got no beef with it, it's an incentive pay to do a dangerous or otherwise undesirable job. UAVs fit more into the second category for most dudes, at least pilots. If the extra cash gets some extra dudes to volunteer for UAVs so I don't have to do it, I'm ALL FOR IT. I hope they pay them triple.

[nunya]

Riebs, on 10 March 2010 - 12:59 PM, said:

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

It gets substantial after a few years. ($600-800+/month)

[usaf36031]

Riebs, on 10 March 2010 - 12:59 PM, said:

Isn't flight pay only a couple hundred extra bucks a month?? I think $125 for a new Lt...this should be raised.

Yeah, but for some reason all of the Army helo dudes down here at Rucker are absolutely convinced that we (Air Force pilots) are getting paid some kind of annual "incentive" bonus pay in the ball park of 15K. When I tell them that we don't, I get a "yeah right, I know better" kind of look. Like I'm hiding our good deal from them!

It's amazing what the rumor mill can produce, I get asked this at least once a week... usually in between the army guys sneakily looking around before asking me how they can get into the Air Force and fly hueys and not deploy.

Edited by usaf36031, 10 March 2010 - 02:24 PM.

[08Dawg]

So if these Pred operators are rated...do they have to go to SERE? Cause that chance of getting captured in Las Vegas is huge.

[joe1234]

It amazes me how some people care so much about someone else's good deal.

Ever hear the phrase "fly your own airplane"? It applies to everyday life, too.

Edited by joe1234, 10 March 2010 - 05:29 PM.

[Finance_Guy]

Falco, on 10 March 2010 - 01:35 PM, said:

I completely agree, give these guys an ass load of cash, give them wings. For me, its not about the money or the bling, its about flying....in the air. If some dudes want to volunteer for this job because of the incentive bonus, awesome, more power to them. This at least gives the dudes who care about aviation a couple more decades before we are all ground-bound.

Key word is "in". I guess they will have to change the DoDFMR since it says to get ACIP, you must be "in" the craft. I would guess they would never qualify for subpar 2 below.

http://comptroller.d.../07a/07a_22.pdf
B. Definitions
1. Aerial Flights. This term is defined as flights in military aircraft or spacecraft, and also flights in nonmilitary aircraft when required by competent orders to fly in such aircraft. A flight begins when the aircraft or spacecraft takes off from rest at any point of support located on the surface of the earth and terminates when it next comes to a complete stop at a point of support located on the surface of the earth.

2. Aviation Accident. This term means an accident in which a member, who is required to participate frequently and regularly in aerial flights, is injured or otherwise incapacitated as the result. The injury or incapacitation, as certified by the appropriate medical authority of the Uniformed Service concerned, may result from:
a. Jumping from, being thrown from, or being struck by, an aircraft or spacecraft, or any part or auxiliary thereof, or
b. Participation in any duty authorized aerial flight or other aircraft or spacecraft operations. This term also means an incapacity incurred as the result, as certified by appropriate medical authority, of performance of flying duty, even though such incapacity is not the result of an actual aviation accident.

[SuperWSO]

usaf36031, on 10 March 2010 - 02:19 PM, said:

Yeah, but for some reason all of the Army helo dudes down here at Rucker are absolutely convinced that we (Air Force pilots) are getting paid some kind of annual "incentive" bonus pay in the ball park of 15K. When I tell them that we don't, I get a "yeah right, I know better" kind of look. Like I'm hiding our good deal from them!

When I did my last deployment with the Army, it was taken as gospel that the AF gave AF dudes deployed with the Army "Substandard Quarters Allowance". The ALO and I got this from just about every Army guy we worked with. When we said it didn't exist, they just told us we were missing out on big bucks.