2738 replies to this topic

[pawnman]

Vertigo, on 29 January 2011 - 07:04 AM, said:

Translation?

I understood it as "I have your name and the name of your unit, I (or my commander)will call your commander when I'm done here and tell him you were late/rude."

[Bergman]

PasserOGas, on 28 January 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

Well, the Wing/CC had shown up early and started briefing already, so we waited in the lobby. One of the shoes in charge of that joke of an operation comes out to inform us that we will not be allowed in because we are "late". I informed her of the time and she came back with "it's universaly known that you must be in seats 15 min early, so you are, in fact, 10 min late." To which I reply "If you want us in our seats at 16:45 why not schedule it for 16:45?" "Sir, you are late and I'm going to tell your commander."

Honestly, based on my experience with the Wg/CC over there, the best thing to do would have been to say, "Sounds great. I will wait here until the Wing Commander is finished, explain my situation to him directly, and let him make the decision whether I will be allowed to outprocess." He is a good dude, and if you were legitimately early and using your crew rest period to complete the requirement, I think he would have your back. Beyond that, it would have been a lot of fun to see the shoe clerk's reaction.

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We, as officers, absolutely must step up to this shit. It has to end.

Champ Kind is absolutely right on this one. Be professional, but stand up for what you know is right. Having to do out-processing on your day off is not right to begin with. Not being allowed to attend because you were "only 5 minutes EARLY" doesn't make any sense. Throw the BS flag.

[JarheadBoom]

pawnman, on 29 January 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

I understood it as "I have your name and the name of your unit, I (or my commander)will call your commander when I'm done here and tell him you were late/rude."

That's my understanding, too.



edit:
Fuckit, I'm saying it......

You officers need to beat this shit down with a bat. I understand not all of you have leadership/management that has your back... but every time you just walk away from an O vs. E confrontation because "the boss will jump in my ass for jumping in the ass of the A1C who blatantly disrespected me in public", you are telling every enlisted person within earshot that they can continue to get away with disrespecting (and even disobeying) a commissioned officer. That is piss-poor leadership, and you don't need to wear your rank on your collar to be able to figure that out.

This shit has to end...

Edited by JarheadBoom, 29 January 2011 - 02:40 PM.

[Vertigo]

pawnman, on 29 January 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

I understood it as "I have your name and the name of your unit, I (or my commander)will call your commander when I'm done here and tell him you were late/rude."

Ok, now I get it. *facepalm myself*

The blocking of the unit threw me off... I thought he was censoring a cuss word. LOL.

[Learjetter]

Scooby, on 29 January 2011 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm not gonna lie, I was a little more cautious in my first few years. But now that I'm a few months away from pinning on Capt, I'm definitely going to take a harder line with shoe BS. I'm not just going to go along with the program anymore.

LOL. No offense, but from a graybeards perspective, that's funny.

Good luck stomping the shoes, lieutenant. Be the change you want to see in others.

[magnetfreezer]

JarheadBoom, on 29 January 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

That's my understanding, too.



edit:
Fuckit, I'm saying it......

You officers need to beat this shit down with a bat. I understand not all of you have leadership/management that has your back... but every time you just walk away from an O vs. E confrontation because "the boss will jump in my ass for jumping in the ass of the A1C who blatantly disrespected me in public", you are telling every enlisted person within earshot that they can continue to get away with disrespecting (and even disobeying) a commissioned officer. That is piss-poor leadership, and you don't need to wear your rank on your collar to be able to figure that out.

This shit has to end...

We do have people that do that. Unfortunately those people also get sent home and therefore aren't at the Deid anymore (Pawnman probably knows one).

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Learjetter, on 29 January 2011 - 08:51 PM, said:

LOL. No offense, but from a graybeards perspective, that's funny.

Good luck stomping the shoes, lieutenant. Be the change you want to see in others.

I thought the same thing. An LT is fighting an uphill battle for sure. My advice to him would be to limit his engagement to the situation at hand-- if an individual shoe is disrespectful, correct THAT instance, but declaring war as an LT is a bad idea.

[zrooster99]

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but declaring war as an LT is a bad idea.

That's part of the problem. Why is it a bad idea? No one supports them. That's our job. Give the LTs (and Capts) top cover whenever possible (as long as they're in the right). There's a fine line but we're so far over to one side of it right now that it almost doesn't matter.

[farva]

magnetfreezer, on 29 January 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

We do have people that do that. Unfortunately those people also get sent home and therefore aren't at the Deid anymore (Pawnman probably knows one).

dly it's true. The shoes have won and they love it. Do I stiil wear my reflective belt -- NO,do I wear white socks --no, do I tuck my PT muu'mu into my shorts? No ######ing chance. Dont't give in to the no-talent ass-clowns.

[pawnman]

magnetfreezer, on 29 January 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

We do have people that do that. Unfortunately those people also get sent home and therefore aren't at the Deid anymore (Pawnman probably knows one).

Yep, I know who you mean, and he wasn't even deployed here...he was swapping out a jet and MX delayed for the one he was supposed to take home.

He's doing alright...he still got a school slot.

[sky_king]

I suggest you print out some AF Form 341s and when they confront you, hand them one.

[SocialD]

Bergman, on 29 January 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Champ Kind is absolutely right on this one. Be professional, but stand up for what you know is right. Having to do out-processing on your day off is not right to begin with. Not being allowed to attend because you were "only 5 minutes EARLY" doesn't make any sense. Throw the BS flag.

Whoever said, "if you're not 5 minutes early, you're late," is a fu%king moron!

[Rainman A-10]

Bergman, on 29 January 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Honestly, based on my experience with the Wg/CC over there, the best thing to do would have been to say, "Sounds great. I will wait here until the Wing Commander is finished, explain my situation to him directly, and let him make the decision whether I will be allowed to outprocess."

I can't even say how much I agree with Bergman. You were in the right. You showed up with enough time to meet your tasking. These people were wrong. I'm guessing they would've shit a brick if you had just sat down and waited.

I cannot imagine a wing commander worth a shit that wouldn't be pissed to know there were douchebags like this acting in this manner on his behalf.

Unfuckingbelievable.

BTW, why didn't you just walk right past them and go inside for the brief? You weren't late.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Scooby, on 29 January 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:

Like I said, I'm one of the few outspoken Os in my SQ. My commander knows that I do not hesitate to give my opinion and I'm one of the few people who will interrupt staff meeting to speak my mind when I think we're doing something stupid.

Does that mean he's going to do what I say? Obviously not but I can sleep at night because I know that I at least tried. Ultimately I only have direct control of the 118 guys in my flight but I do what I can to make the SQ less gay. Every other O just sits there and goes along with the program...I have no delusions of grandeur but I'll at least protest when I feel like it's warranted.

You must be well liked.

[BQZip01]

SocialD, on 30 January 2011 - 09:46 AM, said:

Whoever said, "if you're not 5 minutes early, you're late," is a fu%king moron!

"2"

...and what exactly does that mean when a General is 1 hour late?...


People need to be at events and ready to start at the "start time", but there are times when honest mistakes happen or things can't be avoided (car won't start for no apparent reason, emergency call from the wife who's in the hospital, got bad information and went to the wrong location, etc). If you are 5 minutes into a 2 hour briefing and some guy quietly wanders in, be a good speaker/lecturer and ignore it. Speak to the individual afterwards. Find out why he's late and THEN consider whether it is worth repeating 5 minutes of "instruction" (most of which is your AF friggin' standard "Why we are here" BS intro). Don't be that D-bag who stops the lecture, stands up and yells, "No! You're late. Get out! Learn to be on time!"). However, perhaps he was just lazy, in which case, isn't it more satisfying to tell him that he just wasted 2 hours at the end of your presentation?

[Herk Driver]

Scooby, on 29 January 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:

Like I said, I'm one of the few outspoken Os in my SQ. My commander knows that I do not hesitate to give my opinion and I'm one of the few people who will interrupt staff meeting to speak my mind when I think we're doing something stupid.

Does that mean he's going to do what I say? Obviously not but I can sleep at night because I know that I at least tried. Ultimately I only have direct control of the 118 guys in my flight but I do what I can to make the SQ less gay. Every other O just sits there and goes along with the program...I have no delusions of grandeur but I'll at least protest when I feel like it's warranted.

Done that my entire career...hasn't hurt me yet, but there have been moments where I've wondered. Some people value a person that isn't a yes man.