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OK, here are a couple of pics of my new Saiga...

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This is one with my Bulgarian bayonet on it...

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I just put the Bulgarian sling on it, which I think looks really nice. It is very similar to the Russian AK sling, but in black.

Pure sweetness! :notworthy:

Cheers! M2

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Does anyone have info or first hand experience with the Stoner 63a1? I saw a brief snippet about the thing on the Military channel; it seemed like it might have been better than the M16, but it didn't have enough comparative info to completely convince me.

I have seen a few fully transferable ones out there - I think they were about $250k each. I remember reading a book saying the SEALs liked them and were the biggest users and the second biggest was the Chicago Police Dept....

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I have seen a few fully transferable ones out there - I think they were about $250k each.

$250k? Did I read that correctly? It seems like an awesome weapon from the article M2 posted, but I don't know if it's that good. You could probably find an old Russian tank for less...

and the second biggest was the Chicago Police Dept....

I would love to see some cops with belt fed weaponry, chasing the VC through the streets of downtown Chicago.

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$250k? Did I read that correctly? It seems like an awesome weapon from the article M2 posted, but I don't know if it's that good. You could probably find an old Russian tank for less...

For a fully-transferrable Class III weapon as rare as a Stoner 63 is? Not surprising at all.

For some perspective (if you're unfamiliar with Class III prices), here's a fully-transferrable Class III M-60 that was for sale for $30k...

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For a fully-transferrable Class III weapon as rare as a Stoner 63 is? Not surprising at all.

For some perspective (if you're unfamiliar with Class III prices), here's a fully-transferrable Class III M-60 that was for sale for $30k...

That makes sense in light of the laws of supply and demand. I've just never looked at the cost of anything in the Class III category.

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This site has one for sale, but you have to email them for the price...

AutoWeapons.com

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KNIGHTS ARMAMENT CORPORATION STONER 63A 5.56mm BELT FED LMG (LIGHT MACHINE GUN)...THIS IS AN AS NEW/NEW KAC TRANSFERABLE STONER 63A LMG.... THE STONER WEAPONS ARE SELDOM AVAILABLE IN ANY CONFIGURATION, LET ALONE A LEFT FEED BELT FED VARIETY... THIS FIREARM IS IN CHOICE NEW LIKE CONDITION, APPEARING TO BE UNFIRED... THE STONER WEAPON SYSTEM IS A VERY EXOTIC WEAPON WITH CONVERTIBLE OPTIONS TO TURN IT FROM AN LMG TO RIFLE, HEAVY MACHINE GUN, FLEX GUN, COMMANDO, TOP FEED AUTO RIFLE AND SURVIVAL GUN AND A FEW OTHER CONFIGURATIONS.... THE STONER IS THE BRAIN CHILD OF EUGENE STONER. THE 63A BUILT BY KAC IS THE LAST RUN OF THESE TRANSFERABLE STONERS EVER TO BE BUILT.... THE STONERS WERE FAVORITES WITH ELITE FORCES SUCH AS THE U.S.NAVY SEALS AND SPECIAL FORCES IN SOUTH EAST ASIA AND WAS IN USE UNTIL 1983 WHEN MOST WERE DESTROYED WITH THE ADOPTION OF THE FNH M249 SAW... WE WERE ABLE TO PURCHASE THIS WEAPON WITH SEVERAL OTHERS FROM A WEST COAST PHYSICIAN, WHO PURCHASED HIGH GRADE ITEMS FOR HIS COLLECTION AND FOR LONG TERM INVESTMENT.... THESE GUNS WERE THE HIGH-LIGHT OF HIS COLLECTION AND THE LAST ITEMS TO BE SOLD... WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THIS GENTLEMAN FOR ABOUT 4 YEARS NOW AND HE FINALLY DECIDED TO SELL THIS GEM..... THE STONER 63A LMG FIRES FROM THE OPEN BOLT, ALLOWING SUSTAINED FIRE IN FULL AUTO WITHOUT FEAR OF A COOK OFF FROM A HOT CHAMBER.... THE WEAPON FEATURES A HEAVY QUICK CHANGE BARREL AND ALSO INCLUDES A COMMANDO LENGTH FLUTED SHORT COMMANDO BARREL, ALLOWING YOU TO TURN THIS FIREARM FROM AN LMG TO A LIGHTER WEIGHT COMMANDO TYPE WEAPON....THIS STONER IS ONE OF THE 100 TRANSFERABLES MANUFACTURED BY KNIGHTS ARMAMENT CO AND ONE OF THE HANDFULL RELEASED FOR SALE BY REED KNIGHT.... THIS STONER 63A BELT FED WILL BE THE HIGHLIGHT OF ANY MACHINE GUN COLLECTION AND IS THE PINNACLE OF 5.56mm TRANSFERABLE, FACTORY-MADE, BELT FED MACHINE GUNS.... WITH SEVERAL AVAILABLE OPTIONS, THIS STONER 63A LMG IS SUPER INVESTMENT.....IF YOU WANT SOMETHING VERY RARE TO ADD THEN THIS GUN IS IT. RARE/RARE/RARE EMAIL FOR PRICE. (5-1890)

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That makes sense in light of the laws of supply and demand. I've just never looked at the cost of anything in the Class III category.

Yeah, it is crazy expensive but the supply is small - probably less than double digits available. If they would have taught economics using full-auto weapons as an example I might have got better than a C.

On another note... Have you seen that FN has released their .308/7.62 SCAR? Looks like it is only available in black right now. I've seen them up for sale between $2400 and $6000 with an average of about $3000. I'd love to get one but I just dropped my allowance on an LMT MWS in .308 that I'll get when I'm back from my deployment... If HK gets their HK417 civie version out this year it would be safe to declare 2010 the year of the .308 battel rifle.

BF

Edited by BigFreddie
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Yeah, there are definitely a lot of new battle rifles coming out. M14/M1A still reigns supreme.

Not sure the M14/M1A is supreme - and I have two of them and had a third highly modified version. It has great sights and I am very accurate with it but I don't think it has the ergonomics or durabilty to really challenge the new offerings. It is difficuly to mount a scope on it - it can be done but costs a pretty good amount and gets the scope up pretty high which creates the need for a new stock or foam with tape fix. And now that the military straps all sorts of stuff on the rifles from bipods to lasers to lights, you have to have a method to do that with the M14. You end up creating a monsterously heavy rifle. The one I had highly modified had the barrel replaced with a 16" version, the operating system was chopped and rotated about 45 deg, and then placed in a stock made of magesium - and it still weighed a metric ton. The M14 can be made very accurate but requires talent and skill to keep it at that level of accuracy.

That being said, my original Springfield M1A will be the last rifle I ever part with. I shoot it very well and it is easy to shoot well too. But I think if someone is new to the market they would be foolish not to look at the other options now available...

BF

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I agree that mounting extras on a bone stock M14 is not as intuitive, but saying it's not as durable as a SCAR is simply untrue. M14s are made of steel and wood (modified ones forgo the wood stock for an aluminum one). The SCAR has a polymer lower and aluminum upper. M14s from the 50s are currently being used overseas in a DMR role. Durability is not an issue.

If you're worried about the cost of mounting a scope on an M1A, the rifle itself is significantly cheaper than the overpriced SCAR. Allowing your to buy a good mount and scope, reaching a price of a plain jane SCAR. I think you're making it a bigger deal than it really is though. The SCAR's modularity and interchangeability of barrels is a benefit, but the M14 still has a longer barrel giving it better balistics than the SCAR, all this at only a pound heavier than the SCAR LB version. Regardless, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Most SCARs will be using a 16" barrel or shorter for close in fighting. An M14/M1A is going to be used as a distance weapon.

That being said, if it's someone's first foray into the battle rifle realm I think the M1A is still a better option. It's proven, less expensive, and there are more options, to include spare parts, for it as well. The SCAR has good ergonomics, the barrel change feature and it is lighter, but to each his own.

Edited by Timbonez
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Don't get me wrong - I think the M14 is an awesome rifle. It does have drawbacks though - an accurized/match grade rifle will not hold that level of accuracy without fairly extensive maintenance. Most of the newer 7.62 rifles out there today are based on the AR platform - they are much easier to keep at higher levels of accuracy and there are trained maintenance folks who can do necessary repairs on them.

I also find the M14 safety to pose an issue as well. It is never good to have your finger in the trigger guard attempting to take the rifle off safe. That being said, training will go a long way to solving that issue.

I'm also not sure I would want to get into the M1A now though. My first M1A was a pretty low serial number Springfield Armory that was loaded with USGI parts - barrel, bolt, trigger group, op rod. The newer ones have far fewer USGI parts and many more commercial ones.

My second M1A I mentioned already - highly modified, heavy as hell but looked cool. I ended up selling it to finance another gun later on. It was just too heavy to be practical.

And the third one is actually a Polytech receiver I had a bunch of work done on by Smith Enterprises out of Arizona. The Polytech and Norinco receivers are actually forged like the original M14s and not cast like the vast majority of commercial receivers. I had them swap out the bolt, time it correctly, then added a bunch of USGI parts, a new barrel and had them work on the trigger. I also had them put their gas block and front sight on it and I can now put an Advanced Armament suppressor on it. I financed most of this by selling off NOS USGI parts - USGI parts are more rare now and highly priced.

Another good entry gun would be an FAL by DSA. They're high quality guns at very reasonable prices. The FAL has a very good reputation for being durable and dependable.

Most of the other 7.62 battle rifles, especially the newer ones, are pretty darn expensive. But it is very nice to have options!

BF

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Here's one of today's purchases, HK USP .45ACP Compact. Looking forward to shooting it.

ETA- also picked up a Mossberg 500 Persuader, nothing special. I'll post a pic after some mods.

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Driving through the Southeast near the Georgia/Alabama border I passed a nice, shiny, mean-looking jet-black 2009 Camero with dark tinted windows and the Alabama license plate "HK 45." Could be someone's initials and the year they were born, but for some reason, I don't think so.

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Saw a Barrett (used) going for $8,400-ish at "The Nation's Gun Show" outside DC yesterday.

I guess if I ever win the lottery, that'll be on the list. :flag_waving:

Shit, the semi-auto go for about $5K here, bolt actions about $3K...it's the ammo and finding someplace to shoot 'em that's the biggest pain...

By the way, that's me holding a Barrett M107 in my avatar! :rock:

Cheers! M2

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Driving through the Southeast near the Georgia/Alabama border I passed a nice, shiny, mean-looking jet-black 2009 Camero with dark tinted windows and the Alabama license plate "HK 45." Could be someone's initials and the year they were born, but for some reason, I don't think so.

So "HK 45" should still be available in GA. Maybe I'll get it for the wife's swagger wagon, she'd love that.

Side note- Put about 60 thru the HK. Shoots nice, the sight picture is a little different that other guns I have owned, the HK is a dead on / cover up hold. The DA trigger pull is stout, It might take a little getting used to. The SA is smooth and nice.

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Well I promised myself that my first pistol would be the one that every American male is supposed to own...

And here she is:

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Springfield Armory 1911 GI

There is something to be said about the simple lines of a classic GI style 1911. It has everything you need and nothing you don't to fight the evils of the world. Congrats on your purchase.

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It also looks like you are non-current for a haircut, retirement must be nice. I can't wait to not shave.

Correct on all accounts, although the hair and facial scrub is long gone...

But retirement is nice...I don't have to wear blues on Mondays! :rock:

Cheers! M2

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